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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To consider ending my relationship over rape jokes?

540 replies

Genie0709 · 22/04/2016 16:31

Really sorry if this is a bit of an essay but I would appreciate any opinions/advice.

For background, my partner and I are 27 and have been together for 2.5 years. We have known each other since we were about 16. He has been the most loving, supportive, faithful person since we got together. It is a wonderful relationship and we bring out the best in each other. Currently we don't live together but we have recently started looking to buy our first house.

Last night, I was watching a programme on our Ipad which is linked to his phone. At the time, he was on the train home from work. He and his friends were having a group conversation over imessage and every incoming message popped up at the top of the Ipad as I was watching iplayer. One text appeared referring to a girl as "the one that got away, hey MrGenie" and I couldn't help myself - I opened the group chat to see who they were talking about (please no lectures, I already feel terrible and have never felt a need to snoop before). I soon realised that my partner had sent to his friends an instagram picture of a girl in a dress with her chest out. My partner had commented that he didn't know what he would do if he saw her like that. Cue the most disgusting discussion between these men joking that she was asking to be raped wearing that, even a judge would agree, etc. Gang rape was also joked about. My partner was actively participating in this chat, talking about a time when he went home with this girl after a night out and had "finished" in the taxi before they even got home because she was so hot. They didn't end up sleeping together, which he said he was "still gutted about".

Needless to say I am devastated. Reading that conversation was like reading the messages of a stranger. I have never seen this vile side of him and I feel like I don't know him at all. To me, it is so out of character but maybe he is just an absolute arsehole when I am not around. I am disgusted by the things he said and disgusted by his friends. I feel disrespected, humiliated, terrified that I do not know my own boyfriend.

I have been at work today so have avoided seeing him, but we have an appointment with a mortgage adviser tonight so I am supposed to pick him up from work in an hour. Currently, I can't even bare the thought of looking at him.

Am I overreacting - is this something you could get over? I know that these texts were sick jokes but even joking about it crosses a line in my opinion. I am distraught at the thought of ending this relationship but he obviously has this revolting immature side of him that only comes out when he's with his laddy mates. I'm not sure how I would trust him when he goes out with these friends in the future, or how I would ever look his friends in the eye again.

OP posts:
bumblebee1234 · 23/04/2016 12:37

My partner had sick friends as well but he got shot of them because they were bad for him and they hurt him in the end. Do you think you should be a friend to your partner and explain to him that they could potentially hurt him one day and put him in a dangerous situation. If you can't be a friend to the person you are with then you can't be in a relationship with him. We all come with baggage.

KondosSecretJunkRoom · 23/04/2016 12:37

Best case scenario, as you say, is that he is a weak man who jokes about gang raping women to look cool in front of his mates.

Throw him back pet, he's a liability.

UptownFunk00 · 23/04/2016 12:38

chillled I said a strip club not raping someone.

The bit I mostly disagree with is its personal- it's not a generalisation about all/most women it's about a specific woman. If a comedian made offensive jokes about a group of people but non specific - if it was about someone specific then it would be beyond the Paul.

Writerwannabe83 · 23/04/2016 12:41

What explanation do he give as to why he's searching for and looking at sexy images of a girl he once nearly slept with and saying he still regretted the fact he never actually got to?

AdventuresOfADentist · 23/04/2016 12:43

Flowers Genie. Well done for having it out with him, it can't have been easy.

UptownFunk00 · 23/04/2016 12:46

Just to clarify I don't think he's a rapist or potential rapist, I think he's a sheep who just follows the group.

In his defence he didn't get angry or blame you, or anything like that which is a more positive sign.

I'd just be really sad that he's think pretending to have vile morals was worth it just to keep up with some nasty friends.

Also is the tale about the girl in taxi true? That's just yuck in all aspects.

chilledwarmth · 23/04/2016 12:47

Uptownfunk he knew the devices were synced, he maybe didn't expect that she would be watching the messages. If he'd said jokes in front of her than that would be upsetting her, but you can't hold someone responsible for upsetting or offending their partner when as far as they know, they are having a private conversation the partner isn't listening to. Still not sure what you mean by not thinking for himself. Are you saying that any time a person makes a joke but doesn't actually mean it, they are incapable of thinking for themselves? That doesn't even make sense.

OP, it's your relationship it's your choice but think about it from this point of view. You know him far better than any of us, apart from this incident has he ever done anything that made you think "I don't wanna be with this guy". When you gave us the background of him in your initial post it sounded like you were describing your dream guy. All I'm saying is think very carefully about whether you want to throw that away over this. None of us can say that it's right or wrong to leave him, or to stay with him. What I want to say is that you seemed very keen on him until this, and I think it would be tragic to end such a relationship over this without at least thinking very carefully about it, taking into account how well he treats you and how caring he is, and how you say he brings out the best in you. Everyone has faults, this is one of his. But it's not always the best option to end a relationship over those faults.

Now do I think that the jokes he made about rape are an appropriate thing to say? No I don't, I'm comfortable joking about a lot of controversial topics but rape isn't one of them, I'd ask if we could change the subject or joke about something else. But it's not me, it's him and his friends. They've collectively decided that in the confines of their group, that's an ok subject to joke about. None of us on mumsnet have any say in whether it's an acceptable subject to joke about among a group, only the group does, because it's only them affected by the jokes. Just think about what you might be giving up, balance the negative of this against the positive of how great a boyfriend you said he is in every other aspect, and then decide if the negative outweighs the positive. I can't say what the right thing to do is, but I can say with absolute confidence that you should never end a relationship without a tremendous amount of thought first.

UptownFunk00 · 23/04/2016 12:51

I'm saying why make a joke you don't even find funny/condone just to please some friends chilled.

Tbf OP wasn't deliberately snooping, they kept popping up. If my partner and I synced devices I'd not be making comments he'd be hurt by (not that he's be offended by many things anyway) as if we had sun bed devices is assume a mine is yours, yours is mine thing and although I'd not be interested in what he was saying if I knew he had asshole makes I'd want to know what was going on was I being bitched about?

BothBarrels · 23/04/2016 12:54

OP, if I could speak to my 27 year old self I would say don't waste time on men that aren't worth it...and there are a lot that aren't worth it who still fit into the nice guy category.

I'm 37 now and I believe in relationships we have to decide what we can live with vs what is a fundamental compromise of who we are, of our values. In other words, a deal breaker.

If this is a deal breaker for you but you don't end it, you will both have to find a way to process your feelings around what happened and why it happened in order to move forward with your relationship. Can you do that? Can he?

I've had similar experiences to you with two previous partners, I went mad at them but I didn't end it, either time. Neither person was right for me in the end however, but I found that out later on in other ways.

Please trust your judgement though. This is no reflection on you, this is him hiding a part of who he is and not being brave enough to go against the grain with a bunch of stupid men.

KondosSecretJunkRoom · 23/04/2016 12:56

But it wasn't a joke. Was it?

It wasn't really "three rapist walk into a bar ..." And then everyone laughs at how inappropriate the joke is.

No, here everyone was egging each other on about raping an individual 'in jest' but not with a punchline. But it's not funny is it? it's not clever or ironic, just small men playing at being vile, violent rapists. Lovely.

Original poster
Genie0709 · 23/04/2016 12:58

Uptownfunk, the girl in the taxi story was a joke too apparently. They did get a taxi home but she asked to be dropped off at her house and he went home on his own. He said no finishing off occurred and that he was mortified I actually thought that was true. She's a girl they all went to uni with.

OP posts:
UptownFunk00 · 23/04/2016 12:59

It's the fact it's about an individual woman that would upset me most.

AnyFucker · 23/04/2016 13:11

chilled do you seriously think that rape jokes cause no harm to anyone outside the group ?

FlyingElbows · 23/04/2016 13:11

It's not a joke, she's a real woman. They said that about a real woman, a woman they know. It's awful. Flippant rape jokes old be bad enough but to actually make those comments about a woman they know is abhorrent. I really feel for you, op, it must be horribly upsetting. You're doing the right thing though. Give yourselves space to breathe and make your choice when emotion is not so high. You're being admirably level headed in facing it straight on Flowers

Aeroflotgirl · 23/04/2016 13:15

Telly him that if he wants a relationship with you, his friends have got to go.

Aeroflotgirl · 23/04/2016 13:16

Why did he say he finished himself off then, if he did not! Hmm.

Lweji · 23/04/2016 13:16

What do you think it would take for you to trust him again?

For me, I think he'd have to dump these friends for good. If he's happy in their company, its because he shares their views.

AnyFucker · 23/04/2016 13:18

Why do the friends have to go ?

He sounds like instigator, certainly on this occasion

Jettisoning the equally repulsive friends win't give him a personality transplant

He thought it was OK to do this. He din't get his arm twisted up his back

If he ditches the friends of his own volition fair enough, but telling him to do so smacks of infantile ingredients him

EverySongbirdSays · 23/04/2016 13:19

I would point him in the way of illuminating material such as the wonderful Pages Matam and Pinata

Had a feeling he was just being Johnny Big Balls for the mates.

It's just.........

Whether you want to date Dapper fucking laughs or not

UptownFunk00 · 23/04/2016 13:19

chilled as someone who has been sent evidence of a similar type of talk as well as having sex under some duress I can tell you that it isn't harmless- it normalises the concept of women as objects even in joke form. I'm not done radical feminist either, most of my friends are men.

AnyFucker · 23/04/2016 13:19

*infantilising

Auto correct is an ass

UptownFunk00 · 23/04/2016 13:21

*some

Aeroflotgirl · 23/04/2016 13:30

You certainly need some space to think, these are serious and awful views, and he agreed with them. He was caught out so could not really dig himself out of a hole. I am glad you had it out with him, he is weak and pathetic, and shares some god awful views, is that somebody you want a relationship with and the father of your potential children.

CandyFlossBrain · 23/04/2016 13:31

So they all know her? And they thought it was funny to joke about gang raping her and getting away with it? Shit. I'd wonder who else they've 'joked' about. You know it wasn't an isolated incident. It was just the one you saw.

If you were Jewish and your boyfriend was making jokes with his friends about gassing Jews - society would say dump him, he's a rotten person.

If you were/are a minority race and you discover he and his friends enjoy making horrific racist jokes to blow off steam - society would say dump him, he's a rotten person.

But a group of men saying nasty misogynistic things in private - our society tends to take a very different line on that. Because it's so commonplace. It's just 'banter'. Not all men go out and rape, after all. Just a lot of them...

In your shoes I'd worry about his real thoughts if a female friend got assaulted, I'd worry about what his friends would be able to convince him to do when he was with them, I'd worry about what his friends were saying about me in other group chats. I'd worry about what he/they thought if I wanted to wear a sexy dress. However wonderful he may be outwardly, you've seen some of what goes on under the surface. Is that going to disappear now he's been caught out? No, he'll just be more careful.

bumblebee1234 · 23/04/2016 13:36

Are his friends ugly and find it hard toi find women?

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