To consider ending my relationship over rape jokes?

[Genie0709]

Really sorry if this is a bit of an essay but I would appreciate any opinions/advice.

For background, my partner and I are 27 and have been together for 2.5 years. We have known each other since we were about 16. He has been the most loving, supportive, faithful person since we got together. It is a wonderful relationship and we bring out the best in each other. Currently we don't live together but we have recently started looking to buy our first house.

Last night, I was watching a programme on our Ipad which is linked to his phone. At the time, he was on the train home from work. He and his friends were having a group conversation over imessage and every incoming message popped up at the top of the Ipad as I was watching iplayer. One text appeared referring to a girl as "the one that got away, hey MrGenie" and I couldn't help myself - I opened the group chat to see who they were talking about (please no lectures, I already feel terrible and have never felt a need to snoop before). I soon realised that my partner had sent to his friends an instagram picture of a girl in a dress with her chest out. My partner had commented that he didn't know what he would do if he saw her like that. Cue the most disgusting discussion between these men joking that she was asking to be raped wearing that, even a judge would agree, etc. Gang rape was also joked about. My partner was actively participating in this chat, talking about a time when he went home with this girl after a night out and had "finished" in the taxi before they even got home because she was so hot. They didn't end up sleeping together, which he said he was "still gutted about".

Needless to say I am devastated. Reading that conversation was like reading the messages of a stranger. I have never seen this vile side of him and I feel like I don't know him at all. To me, it is so out of character but maybe he is just an absolute arsehole when I am not around. I am disgusted by the things he said and disgusted by his friends. I feel disrespected, humiliated, terrified that I do not know my own boyfriend.

I have been at work today so have avoided seeing him, but we have an appointment with a mortgage adviser tonight so I am supposed to pick him up from work in an hour. Currently, I can't even bare the thought of looking at him.

Am I overreacting - is this something you could get over? I know that these texts were sick jokes but even joking about it crosses a line in my opinion. I am distraught at the thought of ending this relationship but he obviously has this revolting immature side of him that only comes out when he's with his laddy mates. I'm not sure how I would trust him when he goes out with these friends in the future, or how I would ever look his friends in the eye again.

Flowers that's is disgusting, and factually untrue, men can rape anyone, I've read of elderly ladies being raped

Flowers your stepdad is a very disappointing creature. For so many reasons!

But they aren't all like that. Just the horrible, misogynistic shits.

This

Genie, I agree with others it's great that you have the right instinct and are shocked and appalled by this – trust that instinct.

If you let this one go, you're basically at a very deep level telling him you're OK with it – even if you make very clear to him that you're not.

Also I think we can all do ourselves and each other a favour by showing men this is not acceptable, is offputting to women and a massive turn-off. If everybody rejected men like this, they would die out and so would their influence as fathers.

He acted like a dick, but if we all ended relationships over one instance of dickish behaviour then we'd all be single.

It depends what you mean by dickish – there's being a bit of an idiot in various ways that can be got past, and there's partaking in misogynist rape banter which IMO cannot be got past.

Anyway, being single is far from the worst thing that can happen. Please don't present being single as the worst of all possible states.

I hope you're okay this morning OP

The only man I've known who's repeatedly made rape jokes to me (even after I told him I thought they were totally unacceptable) went on to anally rape a friend of mine he was in a relationship with. I'm not sure she realises even now that it was rape - she had very low self-esteem at the time, and I think has filed itaway mentally under "a sex act I told him I didn't want but he went ahead with anyway."

OP, you are right to be totally freaked out and upset by this, and well done for cancelling the appointment.

I think we are living in dangerous times honey trapping, boys holding girls hostage and antagonising them. We are not living in 1950's women can wear what they want without threat of sexual violence. I went out with my partner to Birmingham for New years and after our meal we saw a group of young people a couple stood out the woman was wearing a skimpy dress in December and her boyfriend wore warm clothes. He walked around with her like she was some sort of trophy and I thought why don't that plonker give her his jacket. Women are not treated great these days we are treated like objects with no feelings. I think we need to take better care of ourselves my partner would never have me go out in something skimpy. My personal opinion is it doesn't matter what you wear I remember reading about a heavily pregnant woman being raped. I think every woman should learn self defence so if a bastard wants to have his way without your consent you can karate chop him. No woman deserves to be raped.

A man was talking about being accused of rape it went to court but it got thrown out because it was someone else who done it. The man was so scared of going near a woman again that from that point onwards he makes sure the woman signs an agreement before they do anything. My cousin was accused of rape but it turned out it was actually her father and uncle who was raping her. His family disowned him and he lived on the streets for a year.

I haven't read the rest of the thread yet but urge, how vile!

If my husband said even one of these things we would be divorced - it's disgusting!

I'm sorry but it sounds like your partner is fake lovely. I know men can say crude things when together but there is crude (she's got sexy tits, for example) and vile comments.

A guy I know since 13 makes rape jokes but he is actually joking as normally quoting a controversial comedian but still when he has said things like that I have said STFU or I'm leaving the room.

As someone who has been told to by face and also read that they deserve to be raped I really can't condone it. Let the bastard know you know what he said and how fucked up he is.

I'm sorry you have found out his true colours this way OP - but it's a lucky escape.

I feel sick and tearful on your behalf.

LurcioAgain There is a book out there called Intercourse and it explains how men use there sawed to conquer women. I haven't finished yet I am at the chapter of Joan of arc. Some men out there thinks we don't have feelings astonishing.

I'm aware i might be shot down for this but I don't think this is a big problem. Taken at face value, what he said was wrong but you have to consider whether he genuinely meant it, or whether it was something said as a joke with no genuine ill meaning to it. It sounds very offensive but

I say this because you say you've been together for 2 and a half years, that's a decent amount of time, it's long enough to have discovered each others "quirks" and habits, it's long enough for the initial "try to appear perfect" facade we often tend to put up when with a new partner to fade, and for you to get to know the real him. Has he ever raped you? Has he ever forced you to do something you didn't want to do? It doesn't seem like he has, you've said he's the most caring person and he brings out the best in you. You've opened up to each other, made yourself vulnerable to each other, he's had the chance on many occasions to take advantage of you if he wanted, and yet you say he's pretty much been the perfect boyfriend. What he said about rape, IF he truly feels that way then I'd advise you to get the hell out of that relationship as soon as you could. However, from what you've said, I think it's far more likely that he doesn't genuinely justify or condone rape, or gang rape, I think it's more likely to be the sort of silly offensive joke that guys often make when having a private group chat with their close friends.

Thing is chilled even if he doesn't mean it he is 1) upsetting his partner with his attitude 2) condoning his 'friends' views and 3) he's still using disgusting terminology and acting up for others - what's to say he wouldn't go along to a strip club as said friends told him to? Would you really want to be with someone who can't think for themselves?

i don't buy the "upsetting his partner" thing. He didn't say those things in front of her, probably precisely because he didn't want to offend or upset her. He was having a private chat with friends he knew would be ok with that level of offensive jokes. Not sure what makes you think he can't think for himself.

Men also commit gang rape in a group when they probably wouldn't have done it alone. I'm not saying he is a rapist, but if peer pressure makes him go along with rape jokes, it's not a great sign. The fact that he "only" did as part of group/to impress friends is far from a good sign.

Well either he's the kind of man who thinks that kind of joke is OK – extremely bad – or he's the kind of man who can't stand up or think for himself and just goes along with it to impress his mates – almost as bad.

What if it's not peer pressure, what if it's just some guys chilling out and making offensive jokes in private? And even if he is feeling pressured into making those jokes, you can't seriously be suggesting that if he felt pressured into that, he's also a potential future rapist as he might be pressured into raping someone. If you could honestly think that about a partner, maybe you need to question your own commitment to the relationship. Especially as she's been with him for a couple of years and in her own words, it's virtually the perfect boyfriend who brings out the best in her.

I'm not going to get into a debate about whether it's ok or not to make offensive jokes, and if it is then where the line gets drawn because everyone seems to have a slightly different opinion on that, my point is that she knows him better than any of us. She says he's the most caring person, he brings out the best in her. So going by that, I'd say that all he's doing is making jokes, not genuinely condoning it, or encouraging his friends to condone it.

Yanbu. He sounds like someone who thinks this is ok. To make these jokes. It was not just that he was going along with it, he was contributing. Take care of yourself OP.

There is a difference between being rude and obscene in private, and being misogynist. They may both be "offensive" in different ways, but I wouldn't have a problem with mates swearing etc. - I do that myself. I don't f and blind in front of my DC but I do when I'm chatting to a close friend for example.

That is different from revealing himself to be a misogynist who thinks joking about rape is OK - because that reveals an attitude to women that is a worry for his partner.

I said I wasn't saying he's a rapist. However, I'd suggest men who have this attitude are more likely to be future potential rapists than those who don't.

A lot of people seem to be trying to condemn him for the joke without looking at the bigger picture. It's about whether a relationship that by all accounts has been very successful should continue or not. The boyfriend makes offensive jokes when in a private setting, or what he thought was a private setting, with his friends. Presumably the reason he hasn't made those jokes to the OP is because he wants to avoid upsetting or offending her, which suggests he does care about her feelings. Maybe we find the jokes to be in bad taste, but it's not really our business what people joke about in private. They aren't hurting anybody, none of us are hurt by what they joke about. Yes it's offensive and yes there's a good argument why you should say if it upsets you and the joke is made in front of you but I just read the OP say that her boyfriend is great and brings out the best in her, and I don't think it's worth her throwing away a relationship of that quality because her boyfriend makes rude jokes with his friends.

I spoke to him last night and pretty much let rip at him. He was like a rabbit caught in headlights, totally blindsided. It was shit. Emotional and shit.

To his credit, he didn't once imply I was being unreasonable or that I had invaded his privacy. He wasn't defensive and immediately said what he'd done was wrong and not a true reflection of his beliefs.

I asked him why he did it and to begin with he said he didn't know and just cried, then eventually conceded that he acts like that because "they all do" and he plays up to it. I told him he was weak and pathetic. He said somewhere along the line it had become acceptable to talk like that between themselves.

He told me that he had never cheated on me and never would. He also said that having now seen the effect that this had had on me, he would never risk losing everything again just to get a laugh from his mates.

I have told him that there is no way we are buying a house together and have asked for a while with no contact to think about whether I can ever trust him again.

I am in genuine turmoil about this, on the one hand I do believe that he genuinely doesn't think rape is acceptable and this was a vile joke. On the other hand, I now know that I am with a weak man who would compromise his relationship and beliefs to be seen as the big man in front of his twat friends. I also do not want to be a part of this problem with society that enables men to behave like this and get away with it.

I know it is my call and no one else can make the decision for me, but it's very hard when I no longer trust my own judgement. He has been nothing short of perfect since we got together and I thank my lucky stars every day that I found someone like him. He would do anything for me. I am struggling so much to reconcile the person I know with the person who wrote those messages. I worry that day to day we would be happy but the next time a night out with these men is mentioned, I will go right back to feeling the way I do now. I'm not sure it's worth it.

I am struggling with the fact that thread is leaning towards him being a potential rapist. The OP sounded very happy with him up until that point. It is offensive what they said but to call him a potential rapist is something else. There are many men out there who have been accused of rape but they never done it. There are many women who struggle to convict their rapist because there is no evidence or proof. If anything is going to change I think us as women have to educate them and tell them that it is wrong to make sick jokes and its wrong to have sex with women when they are drunk because they can't consent to it. The laws are changing and I have a son and I will be educating him on the law and what is socially acceptable.

chilled you said he probably didn't mean it so I say he can't think for himself if he has to pretend to be sexist/find rape funny.

Re: upsetting his partner he clearly knew the devices were synced therefore she'd be able to see his comments.

Tell him to get rid of his friends.

You can make rape jokes without being a misogynist. The test of course would be does he genuinely feel that's an acceptable way to behave towards women. The only evidence we have of how he treats women is what the OP has told us, and she's said he's caring, and he brings out the best in her. To me, that's not the attitude of a misogynist. If he was a misogynist I'd have expected to see a lot more criticisms in the OP, such as he makes me do all the cleaning and cooking because I'm the woman, he overrules me on everything.

Exactly Rhombus pack mentality can be a very dangerous thing.

Hope it works out for best for you, OP. You are young enough to move on, don't mean to be patronizing. This would be a red flag for me- i dated a lovely guy for a while but he called any mess/big problem "an abortion" , he said common parlance at his public school and then the army. But no excuse and couldn't respect him because of this and broke up with him.