To consider ending my relationship over rape jokes?

[Genie0709]

Really sorry if this is a bit of an essay but I would appreciate any opinions/advice.

For background, my partner and I are 27 and have been together for 2.5 years. We have known each other since we were about 16. He has been the most loving, supportive, faithful person since we got together. It is a wonderful relationship and we bring out the best in each other. Currently we don't live together but we have recently started looking to buy our first house.

Last night, I was watching a programme on our Ipad which is linked to his phone. At the time, he was on the train home from work. He and his friends were having a group conversation over imessage and every incoming message popped up at the top of the Ipad as I was watching iplayer. One text appeared referring to a girl as "the one that got away, hey MrGenie" and I couldn't help myself - I opened the group chat to see who they were talking about (please no lectures, I already feel terrible and have never felt a need to snoop before). I soon realised that my partner had sent to his friends an instagram picture of a girl in a dress with her chest out. My partner had commented that he didn't know what he would do if he saw her like that. Cue the most disgusting discussion between these men joking that she was asking to be raped wearing that, even a judge would agree, etc. Gang rape was also joked about. My partner was actively participating in this chat, talking about a time when he went home with this girl after a night out and had "finished" in the taxi before they even got home because she was so hot. They didn't end up sleeping together, which he said he was "still gutted about".

Needless to say I am devastated. Reading that conversation was like reading the messages of a stranger. I have never seen this vile side of him and I feel like I don't know him at all. To me, it is so out of character but maybe he is just an absolute arsehole when I am not around. I am disgusted by the things he said and disgusted by his friends. I feel disrespected, humiliated, terrified that I do not know my own boyfriend.

I have been at work today so have avoided seeing him, but we have an appointment with a mortgage adviser tonight so I am supposed to pick him up from work in an hour. Currently, I can't even bare the thought of looking at him.

Am I overreacting - is this something you could get over? I know that these texts were sick jokes but even joking about it crosses a line in my opinion. I am distraught at the thought of ending this relationship but he obviously has this revolting immature side of him that only comes out when he's with his laddy mates. I'm not sure how I would trust him when he goes out with these friends in the future, or how I would ever look his friends in the eye again.

This is a brilliant article BumpertoBumper (Sunday 20.52)
gu.com/p/4tt3b?CMP=ShareiOSAppp_Other
Thank you.

BaconyMum said Bull! to his: “There are many men out there who have been accused of rape but they never done it.”
I completely agree with BaconyMum: I already had a argument with Chilled and someone else about this on another thread.

This is about rape culture and the OP's boyfriend and his friends, and others like them, as a potential jury members:
Cue the most disgusting discussion between these men joking that she was asking to be raped wearing that, even a judge would agree, etc.

Not just about them as potential jury members obviously.

Spindoctor how awful did u get him convicted.

Bumblebee1234 I am very sorry you were attacked. It was good your friend who had been going out with the attacker dumped him when she found out.

SpinDoctor

You are so right.

ItalianGreyhound That article Please don't Rape is vey interesting as were the comments.

I have been trying trying to catch up with the full thread.

I hope you are OK today OP.

Sorry Bumble from what you said I had thought you got away in time and hope that is the case. But maybe you didn't, and it also sounds as though that man is a serial entitled-feeling attacker/rapist.

Kinddogstail I do agree with you and baconyum it does leave a chill down my spine thinking that these men could be on the jury. The case could be about this horrific crime against a woman. It doesn't matter what you wear no woman deserves to be raped.

A couple of posters on the last page have nailed it for me, it's the inconsistency he presents with that is deeply worrying. I think by the time you move towards buying a house together or getting married, you should have a good idea of the darker side of someone's personality and former history as well as the fun, lighter side. When I married my husband, I knew his flaws, the things that weren't perfect about him, the dodgy experiences he'd had and what ongoing issues there may be, as well as why he was great, loving and amazing. I haven't been much surprised by anything in the past decade or so for this reason. The fact that this man presents as a 'lovely boyfriend' but then has this (hidden) darker side would be very troubling for me and suggest there would be more surprises to come.

Unfortunately, having spent a lot of time with groups of men in my twenties, I have heard all the banter (although not rape jokes) and seen the bad behaviour, including with sex workers on stag dos/when abroad. These were and are all 'lovely' guys, professional types who went on to marry women who don't know about much of this past stuff (they talk in code all the time). There were a few exceptions, but pack mentality rules for many many men.

I didn't understand why people didn't report rape until it happened to me, and I experienced the realities of it and what you go through afterwards. It was hard to admit to myself let alone tell others. He died actually - very suddenly a few years later. I felt such relief both for myself and for any other potential victims I didn't know that I probably wasn't the first til after his death

He died actually - very suddenly a few years later.
An Ox sits on my tongue

It must have been horrific for you Spin and for his other probable victims. I hope you are OK. This could be bringing it all up for you and other posters reading this thread who have been raped.

That's why I've been commenting throughout. Rape and raping someone is not funny. It psychologically destroyed me. I've never been the same since and I never will be again. There's a Before Me and an After Me

The idea that violating a woman is a momentary thing that is easily moved on from and a matter of jest is the view of a rapist and enablers of rape culture.

Everyone has a different idea about what kind of things are off limits, about when something stops being comedy and starts being just plain wrong. Maybe you draw the line at rape jokes, but other people decide that among their group such jokes are fine.

Actually though, he didn't deliver a joke. He had a conversation about whether or not he should have/could have raped a woman. You could, at a stretch, call it banter, but of a pretty grim kind.

The comparisons to murderers and serial killers are just silly. There is nothing to suggest the boyfriend is a rapist, or would ever be a rapist, yet for some reason people feel it is fine to imply he is or is at risk of becoming one.

I've been thinking about this on and off all morning, and actually, I don't think it's that big a leap. As members of society I believe there's some things we don't do because we think they're wrong and sometimes there's things we don't do because we know we'll be punished. Those things are different for all of us.

For example, I think some light cannabis smoking is pretty much fine and dandy. I know loads of people who do it, and I think they're all pretty awesome human beings. I used to smoke cannabis. I don't now because although the penalties are not very serious, I am a boring grown up single parent with a job and a mortgage and a dependent, and the fallout of a potential criminal record means that the risk isn't worth it. However, I haven't fundamentally changed my opinion about the act of smoking cannabis, which is essentially 'Meh. No big deal.' So if I talk about smoking cannabis it's all pretty lighthearted and funny and casual.

I'd argue someone who'd be prepared to talk about raping a woman they know (quite casually and with no prompting) is, through that choice of language, demonstrating an opinion about the act of rape. Which is, to some extent, like my attitude to dope smoking - 'Meh. No big deal'. Particularly about the kind of rape that happens within existing relationships. That's not to say he'd ever do it, but that perhaps what is stopping him is the societal consequences (exposure, shame, punishment, prison) not a fundamental moral position. So, if someone like that was in a position where he believed that he could 'get away' with raping a woman (particularly if it took the form of 'going too far' within the context of an intimate situation), I'd assume he was a lot more likely to do it than someone who didn't display that casual attitude. In the same way, if you handed me a spliff at a private party with people I trusted around me I'd be a lot more likely to smoke it than someone morally opposed to drug taking.

In addition, it seems that if this sort of talk is pretty common amongst groups of men, then so, potentially, is that attitude to the 'grey areas' of consent. I think that's pretty scary, and that it's really important we all start to reframe the conversation so that kind of thing is no longer a tolerable way to talk about women and then becomes no longer a tolerable way to think about women. Language is important and so is validation from your peers. If there's a group of men 'joking' or 'having bants' about rape, then I think that's actually pretty dangerous. If you're saying 'Meh, well most men make jokes about rape', then I think that's pretty terrifying.

I think you explained that so well Dollar

Spin Before and After you is so very sad.

I think a lot of men truly secretly think that if someone has/might have sex anyway why is it any big deal if someone just pushes it along and takes it from them?

It is as big a deal as it can get though and often a life sentence for victims, including for the boys it happens to.

OP you haven't commented for some time

How are things ?

Spindoctor I am so very sorry.

Thanks greyhound I wonder whether the OP LTB or if we'll ever find out