To just be honest for a minute

[darkonyx]

Namechanged.

One of my friends recently signed up for a dating site, and within a month is coupled-up, which is of course very lovely for her and I have no doubt she will be another friend married within the next twenty four to thirty six months! (I'm 30, nearly 31.) All well and good.

I feel sad that it probably won't happen for me.

Here is the thing: I am considerably below "average" in the looks stakes. I don't have a nice figure (this isn't linked to size so much as proportions and so on) and although I do try, I am constantly fighting a losing battle against excess body hair and the like!

Now, I don't want this to turn into a "low self esteem - needs counselling" post. I don't think I have very low self esteem - I am really successful career wise, have bought my own home outright, and have a lot going on I am happy with.

But I would love a family and children.

Before people say I am young to have written myself off, I know, but unfortunately I am that person men shout abuse at when drunk in the street; I have been on dating sites more times than I've had hot dinners and haven't got further than "hey hows u" from men twenty years my senior and have had no interest throughout college, university and my post grad. I think I am realistic about my chances!

I have looked into adoption but I don't think it's for me.

It makes me sad.

That makes me sad too

Your post makes me sad.
I'm not going to patronise you by saying "I bet you're gorgeous and don;t realise it," etc, but what I will say is you come across as highly intelligent, level headed, and are obviously hard working so must be skilled and have lots to talk about.

I get the drunken abuse too as I'm big. It's awful. I'm exactly your age too, OP, but I don't want a family. Relationship-wise, I'd like one too but it ain't happening and hasn't for many years. Genuinely considering going to swingers-type clubs, as discussed on a recent thread!

I don't know what the answer is I really don't. I always marvel how people on here and in RL seem to fall into relationships so easily.

Well personally, I think I am more attractive now than I was when I met dh. I drank a lot and was over weight, my hair was awful etc.

It didn't seem to bother him. We were friends first though maybe tha makes a difference.

There isn't much I can say as my thoughts are along the lines of 'it may happen it may not' and it's probably not going to make you feel better. I feel sad for you, not because you are single , but because you are sad about it.

Aw your post makes me feel really sad. You may not deem yourself attractive but beauty is in the eye of the beholder and I am sure men have and do find you attractive. I have friends who's dh I don't find attractive and think goodness how did he get her and visa versa and I am sure they might think that about my dh or even me! Not everyone finds the same thing attractive.

Are there any single men in your social circle or that of your friends? Perhaps there is someone you know already who you haven't thought about who might be interested. I think often the more natural approach of meeting through neutral friends or on the pub works better than internet dating. You may find it better to get to know someone through your personality or someone who already knows your personality might be better. Perhaps you're just looking in the wrong places?

Well, I'm averagely attractive and don't get a whole load of interest either!
And every day I see women who are not obviously attractive in the way we often think of it, walking hand in hand with their partners.

The fact that your self esteem is intact probably means you're giving off the "don't even think about saying hello because you think I'm too desperate to be discerning"

Online dating is hard, because there is a big emphasis on looks. Getting involved in activities might help more.

The losing battle with hair - yeah, I have that going on! Could be try being strict with a regime on that? It's easier to keep on top of every day, and don't be afraid to throw money at it - professional eyebrow shaping for example, or laser removal for the tache. I have a tache.

Not really to make you look attractive for someone else, but to make you feel more attractive. Your figure too - do it for you, have you checked out personal shopping? Maybe a change of styles will help you feel more attractive - I know I never know what suits me, and I lack the confidence to try sometimes.

It's not about making you more attractive, but making you feel the best you can about how you look.
Attitude!

Your post makes me sad too.
I genuinely believe everyone has something attractive about them. Online can be brutal. Perhaps you could consider a hobby that interests you & see if there are new friends there.
Having kids & a husband is not all it's cracked up to be.

On a purely pragmatic note 30 is well young enough to meet someone, settle down and have children. Also from what I've seen - women from all ends of the 'looks' spectrum do have children.

Your post makes me feel really sad for you too. 30 is still loads of time to find someone, and what really matters is that (well, you come across as someone who is) you are modest, sensible, clever and can articulate yourself.

Do you ever talk to your female friends about it? Have you asked for their honest opinion?

Thank you.

I keep on top of the hair - have to really - in my line of work, it is important to look groomed if not attractive.

I doubt many men have secretly been longing after me I work in a very male orientated profession and as such my courses at university were composed primarily of men. The few females on the course were soon matched up - except me!

I relate well to men as friends but there is never a suggestion of it going any further, which I suspect is linked to the fact I am not "fanciable."

Of course, 30 is young - some of my friends are married but plenty are single.

But they will be able to find a partner easily.

I won't.

I agree - it makes total sense that online is more difficult.

I would not describe myself as you have but I honestly don't think I'd fare too well online either

Everyone has beauty. Unless they are ugly inside.

God, that sounds so trite, but I believe it.

y'know, it doesn't have to be this way. You could look at IVF with a doner.... or just enjoy life, get out there and do things and you never know you might just meet someone. The more you travel /take up hobbies and interests the more interesting you will be. don't be sad, and don't be desperate, make life whatever it can be. Not all men are so superficial that they just go for looks, there are plenty of men out there with women who don't meet the stereotypical looker and visa versa. don't sell yourself short, be whatever you can be and you sound successful so far. I think its just you haven't met him yet rather than he doesn't exist.

Dark I suspect many of us are the 'type' that men hurl drunken abuse at. I am, it is because I am A) A woman, and B) They are misogynist fuckwits. Pay no more heed to that, and try not to link it in your mind to your level of attractiveness.

FWIW, I have no problems finding men who want relationships. Online Dating is not an excellent example of these, they need a lot of weeding out.

Rather than dating sites, have you tried just meeting people with similar interests, and letting things develop? I know loads of people who on the face of it are not attractive, but seem to be in happy relationships with their soul mates. And also lots of attractive people who have not met the right one.

Attractiveness is in the eye of the beholder, and anyone can make the best of their good points, and hide the less good.

I have travelled extensively throughout Australia and India.

I have an interest in wildlife and marine life and can scuba dive and have many hobbies linked to this.

I don't feel the problem is that I'm not a nice person, an intelligent person, a fun person, a well-rounded person. People relate to me well - have always had plenty of friends, male and female, once Year 8 bullying was over, and even then I had a group of fiercely-loyal friends.

I'm a NICE person! Just not a nice LOOKING person!

Unfortunately, that seems to be the turn-off.

OP

I have no practical advice about meeting new people, and don't want this to sound at all patronising but when you said adoption doesn't feel right for you, sperm donation came into my head as an alternative. Have you, or would you consider this? It doesn't solve the issue of struggling to find a relationship, but I don't want you to think the possibility of having children is out of your reach just because adoption isn't for you.

Oops - I seem to have cross posted with lots of faster fingers

You only need one though

And the one you find, you may be able to build a strong relationship with.

Oh, don't worry, I don't pay attention to them - I do genuinely find it so utterly pathetic as to barely really notice it. I personally don't find small, balding men attractive but don't feel the need to yell abuse at them in the street. As if I'd want to shag them anyway!

But it does seem to suggest my looks are below average. Unfortunately I can't do an awful lot about that. I keep myself groomed of course out of personal pride, but I am not attractive to men.

The sort of man I would ideally like to be with wouldn't dream of shouting abuse! He is the sort of man I'm probably great friends with and confides to me about his crush on the pretty colleague. Le sigh.

Sperm donation - not really sure. It is something I would consider but don't know if I feel entirely comfortable with it.

Ok, you seem really convinced youre 'not fanciable' but I'm not really sure about that as I see loads of very ugly people getting off with each other - like proper ugly

What about other relationships/sex etc?

Is there anything obvious we could advise on. If you look at pictures of very unattractive faces it's usually because they've got very pronounced over bites, terrible acne, an enormous nose or ears.

I just think it doesn't take much to take people to average looking.

Btw I'm not condoning a society based on looks or anything, just trying to think outside the box

Being attracted to someone isn't all about how you look.

Granted if you look like you say you do online dating might not get you very far but don't give up hope.

I know lots of people who I would say are not pretty or good looking but are definitely attractive. I have a friend who is what I would describe as 'ugly' to look at but he is also very attractive. There are plenty of women that moon over him.

Like I say, looks and attraction are not the same.

Have you spoken to your GP about the possibility of PCSO / thyroid issues?

Not really the point, but it crossed my mind.

Also, a style consultant might be worth a visit. As others have said, not for the purposes of bagging a man, but so that you feel better about your physical looks and style.

Do you have a good haircut? Good teeth? Good posture?

Well, it isn't just OD unfortunately - I have a long history of being ignored, sadly!

The sixth form I attended was in an all boys school (excellent reputation for science) and whilst girls were permitted in the sixth form we were still in a minority. I was one of two girls in A level Chemistry!

At university and throughout my postgrad, I was in a female minority too. The other girls on the courses were snatched up, which sadly shelved my "they see you as one of them" theory.

My relationships with my male and female friends are strong, long lasting.

Just one of those things!

Thanks for letting me sound off.

I was very attractive in my youth and am still not too bad now for my age but I found when I attracted a lot of men (in my thirties) they were mainly wankers and mainly offended me with their mysogynistic attitudes.

I met someone and am still married but for years saw far less attractive girls than me just walk off with keen partners who seemed to have more respect for their overweight, unconventionally attractive partners than any had shown to me.

I think it's hard to meet men mature enough for an adult relationship when one is not yet middle aged, ie able to meet men old enough to act with enough maturity to consider as a serious option. I'm not sure looks have a bearing on this situation either way, just the fact men need to grow up and stop judging women on looks either way.