To just be honest for a minute

[darkonyx]

Namechanged.

One of my friends recently signed up for a dating site, and within a month is coupled-up, which is of course very lovely for her and I have no doubt she will be another friend married within the next twenty four to thirty six months! (I'm 30, nearly 31.) All well and good.

I feel sad that it probably won't happen for me.

Here is the thing: I am considerably below "average" in the looks stakes. I don't have a nice figure (this isn't linked to size so much as proportions and so on) and although I do try, I am constantly fighting a losing battle against excess body hair and the like!

Now, I don't want this to turn into a "low self esteem - needs counselling" post. I don't think I have very low self esteem - I am really successful career wise, have bought my own home outright, and have a lot going on I am happy with.

But I would love a family and children.

Before people say I am young to have written myself off, I know, but unfortunately I am that person men shout abuse at when drunk in the street; I have been on dating sites more times than I've had hot dinners and haven't got further than "hey hows u" from men twenty years my senior and have had no interest throughout college, university and my post grad. I think I am realistic about my chances!

I have looked into adoption but I don't think it's for me.

It makes me sad.

Also - and I promise this is my last post! - men might not like how I look but I don't mind it. Ok, conventionally gorgeous I'm not but i have lovely hair and eyes and good teeth, nice boobs - I guess I mean that I'appreciate me even if no one else does!

Think outside the box?
Move more gradually towards what you're hoping for ...
Go out with someone just for the sake of it, maybe suggest it to a friend yourself? If possible shag them as well just to get that hurdle jumped over?!
See if you can find someone of opposite sex who feels rather as you do. There are plenty of men I know who've never had a partner, especially when I was in my twenties/early thirties
You could make someone's day - and night!
Don't necessarily expect this person to become your partner even if that's what you're hoping for in the long run

Good luck!
You sound great. Oh and forget what you're Mum said, she wasn't helping!

You have to stop thinking so negatively about your looks. It'll come out unconsciously to the very men you're trying to attract if you're so down on it. Concentrate on making some man never forget what you said/did instead, because we all have something to offer someone else but it's up to the individual to show it off!

DonTChew - possibly the most unhelpful post on the entire thread. Have you any idea how it makes single girls feel when you suggest maybe it's because they're a secret lesbian?

Dark, you sound so down on your looks that you have almost resigned yourself to being forced into permanent abstinence by then!

To me, it sounds like perhaps you are bit blokes and unfeminine. I suspect that you use your wit and humour and cool attitude to overcompensate for how you feel about your looks, therefore immediately throwing yourself into the 'blokes friend' category rather than the 'potential partner' category.

That is probably where the lesbian comments come from?

Could that be right? If so you just need a hand being a bit more feminine! Sounds totally backwards and against a lot of forward thinking- bit sometimes it is the truth.

I was 31 when I met my husband and had been single for a long time. I have stunning hair but otherwise average looking. There's someone out there for everyone, the opportunity to meet that someone needs to arise ????

Someone upthread mentioned terrible acne (that's me - v bad scarring), bad teeth (that's me) and overbite (I have the opposite).

Never dated during high school, barely in university, moved to the UK, met a couple of guys (not from my country) and had 2 long term relationships, married the second long term one. We now have 2 beautiful (I'm not just being biased) children. He's not bad looking himself, he had a long term girlfriend before me.

I am really not attractive. I am also quite smart and work in a male dominated industry or rather a senior male dominated industry (lots of women at the bottom). Stop downplaying your strengths. Really.

Would you go out with a male version of you? Someone on a similar scale looks wise with unfortunate legs but clever, sporty and sociable?

well being perfectly honest, you are coming across to me as a dogmatic pain in the arse.
If you have this attitude in RL then men will not dare to think of you in a sexual or romantic way.
I feel you must have other issues as tt is blindingly obvious that the world is full of hideous people all reproducing merrily away.
I am a fat 70 year old lesbian. Last night, wearing baggy trousers and my 'painting' T shirt, I had reason to talk to a man on holiday nearby about a stray dog. Within ten minutes, and in front of his wife, his hand was wandering slowly over my bra strap and he was inviting me to stay for a drink! Men are SO not that hard to please.....anyway just find one uglier than you, if you feel that's posible, there's plenty about. And maybe he will turn out to be beautiful on the inside as well!

Agree with grump about the 'blokes friend' rather than 'sexual partner/girlfriend' category. The way you are putting yourself down is a very typical way I'd class girlfriends who are 'blokey'.

Have you tried the dating services where you are "matched on deeper compatibility" or whatever. I think they're expensive but they attract people who are not just flicking through photos like an Argos catalogue.
I met my dh at 29 nearly 30 online after being single with loads of male friends for most of my 20s. I am just not the kind of girl guys hit on. I don't give off sexual vibes. I get on well with men, maybe more than women due to my work and hobbies. I was also very "picky", independent and ok with being single. I would sometimes try to flirt more but always forget to halfway through the evening and end up with another male friend instead of a snog!
Anyway, I was lucky with online dating and my dh was my second date. But this was in 2005 when OD wasn't such a shallow meat market as it can be now.

As I said, I'd go for a proper online match making service.

Your post makes me feel sad too.

To be honest the best relationships are based on being like friends with some intimacy mixed in. When I say this I mean as long as your personality is attractive and you don't have 100 warts then I think a relationship should be perfectly viable.

I bet if 90% of us saw a picture of you then we'd find you average looking.

I'm overweight quite a bit, have a visual impairment and very short - but I've still had a few men very interested, my present fiancé included.

I hope you do find happiness though.

I am distinctly below average looks wise, but spend some considerable time taking care of myself: hair cut and dyed, skin, make up, food. Clothes that flatter. This all makes a big difference. Get laser on excess hair or if you cannot afford that then a lumea or epilator. So many people really invest time in this sort of things and in some cultures it is more accepted and the norm.

What deja said. Glance down your high street it's full of happily partnered mingers. Ugly is not a barrier to reproduction.

Could you have BO?

I don't think OP lacks care and attention to her appearance.
I suspect it is the blokish thing. Although I may be projecting. And possibly the well groomed thing adds to that - coming off as professional and business like.

When i said standoffish I meant sexually not socially. I am friendly and chatty and fall very easily into the girl you drink beer with category. (Being funny for some reason is not 'allowed' in women). So unless I meet people in a "I am here to date" situation i become a friend.

Also it was worse when I was sexually inexperienced and self conscious about it. As i wanted someone to want me but didn't want to end up in a situation where things moved too fast. Its a catch 22 and the older you think you are to be starting on that road the more daunting it seems.

Again though it is easy to point theae things out, hard to suggest how you go about making yourself a flirty sexually confident person who gives off come to bed vibes without being embarrassing.

Can guarantee you one thing though OP. Once you find yourself one bloke, be he 'the one' or not, a whole pile of them will suddenly be queuing up the second you are taken. it was ever thus...you wait ages for a bus...

I do not think that love and children are only there for the beautiful

I do think however that blind or internet dating is for you - as your assets are so much more than a photo

Get out there - connect with the community - do good deeds and consider adoption ( I am not saying cos you won't meet someone - but it's always an option for anyone that wants children )

Peace out op

I meant internet dating is NOT for you - as you can't show a lovely soul online !

Dark, I think what you need to take on board is that no-one is perfect, male or female. I'm sure you are no worse/ better than anyone else in reality, you just sound very down. And drunken idiots just shout at the nearest woman person. They have done it to me, and at the same time, friends have told me they think I'm quite OK looking. It seems to be a particular problem if you ignore them... Personally, I would persevere with online.

Do you show your lovely knockers off? Is your beautiful hair cut and styled in a way that improves your facial features? Do you flasher your fabulous gnashers enough? I swear a great set of teeth and a great pair of breasts will get you much further if you use them to your advantage. I've cast my (oft-critical and judgemental) eye over unattractive women in the past and felt something close to pity for them. Then I have seen them in action: lots of friends around; a confident gait; a sexy laugh; lovely teeth; an unconscious way about them - and I've completely rehashed my opinion of them.

I have a fb friend who, when I first saw a photo of her (we 'met' on MN), literally recoiled at her strange and pixie-like face. It wasn't pleasant. I kept staring and ogling, trying to find a feature that was perhaps more conventional, even a little pretty. But no..she was the oddest-looking creature....and then I saw the photos of her husband. I literally swooned. He is gorgeous and sexy personified and he clearly adores her. His expression is one of adoration whenever they are photographed (spontaneously, never rehearsed) together.

This is the wonder of love and sexual attraction and difference. Please find some way of making the best of your wonderful hair and teeth and breasts and brain and believe in yourself

Yy anutter speaks a lot of sense.
I think it is about seeming not to care and also just assuming people do find you attractive in a 'why the hell wouldn't they' kind of way.

OP you are probably not unattractive. You are probably just too clever and too funny although thrre is a sad truth in this. Some men feel threatened by funny clever women and there is a medua bias towards suggesting clever=asexual and unattractive (Amy in Big bang theory) and pretty means stupid = desirable gf (Penny in big bang theory) and professional but still attractive = bossy/domineering (bernadette).
Even though Penny is actually quite savvy and very funny and Amy is totally up for it those stereotypes are still ingrained.

Darling, chill out. I was a single mum for 10 years (the loveliest years of my life btw). Then met a man I very much liked inspite of his terrible teeth and married at 35.

If you really want a child then go for it. Partnership can follow, if you can be bothered.