To just be honest for a minute

[darkonyx]

Namechanged.

One of my friends recently signed up for a dating site, and within a month is coupled-up, which is of course very lovely for her and I have no doubt she will be another friend married within the next twenty four to thirty six months! (I'm 30, nearly 31.) All well and good.

I feel sad that it probably won't happen for me.

Here is the thing: I am considerably below "average" in the looks stakes. I don't have a nice figure (this isn't linked to size so much as proportions and so on) and although I do try, I am constantly fighting a losing battle against excess body hair and the like!

Now, I don't want this to turn into a "low self esteem - needs counselling" post. I don't think I have very low self esteem - I am really successful career wise, have bought my own home outright, and have a lot going on I am happy with.

But I would love a family and children.

Before people say I am young to have written myself off, I know, but unfortunately I am that person men shout abuse at when drunk in the street; I have been on dating sites more times than I've had hot dinners and haven't got further than "hey hows u" from men twenty years my senior and have had no interest throughout college, university and my post grad. I think I am realistic about my chances!

I have looked into adoption but I don't think it's for me.

It makes me sad.

I don't have PCOS. I just come from a "hairy" family!

I just have an unfortunate collection of features and my body is "arranged" bizarrely, I suppose.

Please don't think that because I am not conventionally attractive, I am scruffy with huge yellow and black teeth. I am well groomed (I have to be) and tidy and certainly clean!

I would say don't bother with online dating it is completely superficial. I like the sound of you - you sound balanced, intelligent and witty and are obviously well respected in your field. I would wonder if you're giving of a bit of a scary 'vibe' because you are so capable and possibly a bit intimidating (?) !

Get involved with hobbies or online forums about hobbies or things you're interested in. Get to know people that way and make friends first. Try not to put barriers up or assume that when they meet you they won't like you. If you're acting like you don't like yourself very much then how do you expect other people to value you. If you believe and have confidence in yourself then other people will too.

Plenty of people who are not conventionally attractive have very successful relationships. Look around you.

Dark, have you ever had a partner?

Quite honestly, if I had any more hobbies, I would have to forgo sleeping!

No, I don't think I give off the "scary" vibe - it would be nice to think I am just, y'know, THAT cool that I'm scaring 'em off - but I'm not! I think it's generally accepted by most that I am a closet lesbian. Which is fine.

I would like to have sex, but I suppose I only want it in the confines of a relationship, which appears to Not Be Happening, so ...

I've known plenty of below average in looks women get partnered up.

You sound like someone my BIL might like. He is a really lovely guy but perennially single, has loads of female friends but I think he suffers from 'too nice' syndrome. He is in his 40s and would love a family too.
A long shot I know, but You can always pm me if you would to find out more. You never know..........
( he lives in the south of England)

No, never.

Unfortunately I am based quite far North! Not quite hitting the lands of tartan and porridge, but not far off!

Okay. Do you have lots of hobbies?

looks and attraction are not the same. You know you are interesting, a nice person, an intelligent person, a fun person, a well-rounded person.Try to be less negative about your looks and show confidence, that's what is attractive in anyone, ugly or beautiful. and sorry Op I read my first post back and thought I was a tad patronising

You know, actual looks dont really have too much to do with being fanciable. Its how you act. Maybe you are so sensible and friend- like with men that it wouldn't even occur to them to think of you in that way.
I have found all manner of not conventionally attractive men sexy when they have a bit of self confidence, charm, and yes, swagger! Get your groove on, flirt a bit, see what happens. You might be surprised.

Have you read my posts Elfina? I'm just curious because I've answered both the questions you've asked quite thoroughly.

I agree to not focusing on online dating it's so superficial and saturated too- my very good looking sister didn't get much interest online for a while.
Have you got any friends you'd feel comfortable asking if they'd set you up with someone they know? I met my oh of 14 years after mutual friends thought we'd hit it off.

I married very late thirties and had baby in early forties. Hitting 30 I assumed would never happen and stopped looking. I don't believe in The One but dh and I somehow found eachother.
I considered adoption. A newly single pal has just done that.
Your honesty is impressive.

Why would most of them think that you're a closet lesbian ? Have you ever asked one of your male friends to be honest with you ? You seem to get on well enough to men to be able to ask.

No, you weren't patronising!

It is a hard one but I think you do have to conclude after years of studying alongside men, working alongside men, having hobbies that are fairly evenly split between men and women - that men are not interested!

They like me, but as a friend.

I am accepting of this, but not always happy. It's difficult not to feel envious when more conventionally attractive friends seamlessly move into relationships.

Of all the people I know who are married, they are not all attractive. I can think if a couple of friends at least who are also a bit overweight and struggle with body hair. So its clearly possible! And you sound really nice. You made passing reference to older men, but maybe thats something to.consider. I think older men do tend to have a bit more perspective on what makes a good life partner.

Carben - because I am not so sweet 31 and have never been kissed. Apart from snogging Lee Johnston from Year 12 at somebody's eighteenth birthday party!

I think you live very close to me by the sounds!! If you ever want to venture to a singles event.... (by that I clearly mean "PLEASE come with me, I don't dare go alone!!)

I have tried such events in the past Ctrl* but unfortunately they haven't been a success! I really am pretty hopeless case insofar as dating. It seems unfair that it is down to something I ultimately have little control over, but such is life!

If it's any help, I have a very attractive friend who has been single for more than 8 years. She's had a few disastrous dates in that time but seems resigned to being single. It's definitely not all about looks.

If they think you're a closer lesbian then it means you're giving a bad 'vibe' - the not interested vibe. You've written yourself off iin your mind and that probably comes across in that men feel like there is no point trying to date you. So I think you need to work on your attitude towards dating. Also, I agree with PP that finding a partner has nothing to do with looks. I know hairy and obese people and ones with the terrible teeth who have found partners. Men are not as superficial as we as a society sometimes make them out to be you know.

Try reading intimate connections by David Burns. You can get it for free on an app called scribd if you have a smartphone or tablet. It's not patronising like a lot of self help books and has lots of practical, helpful exercises in it. You need to find some self confidence, this book may help.

I second making as many friends as possible- things sometimes change, and friends are much better than online dates.

Also as we get older we all head closer to average looking- thin people get fat, or wrinkly, curvy oeoe get lumpy, toned people get scraggy,men go bald, we get glasses, and age spots, and so on! So a plain 20 something might well be comparatively good looking at 40.

Just have fun, and enjoy the things you can do and are good at.

I think you're partly a bit upset about how hard it is. You're not pretty and so not fanciable (in your eyes) so you've resigned yourself to being the mate and not showing any vulnerabilities. Others are just seeing you through your own eyes. You're creating a self- fulfilling prophecy. Sounds like you've been doing it for a very long time and maybe as a way of protecting yourself from rejection. Probably- going back to your teenage years a pattern was set and you've just kept reinforcing it. You're only 31 - it's time to re-invent yourself.

Hello, I never really write on here but I really wanted to after reading this. I think what you have expressed is a feeling that many, many women have. But I would just reiterate that I think it is about how you meet people. I was in a rubbish, very long relationship when I met my now-husband, and we were colleagues/friends for years with no feeling that anything would happen. I certainly didn't think he 'fancied' me. When the time was right things just happened and fell in to place, seemingly out of nowhere. I think to rule out the chance of you meeting someone who you fall in love with in the next few years and going on to have children, is definitely premature. Also, I understand that you don't feel you have low self-esteem, but if you fundamentally consider yourself 'unfanciable' you are likely to be projecting that in real life.
You are successful in other areas of your life, maybe this one will just take a little longer to head the way you want it to.