To just be honest for a minute

[darkonyx]

Namechanged.

One of my friends recently signed up for a dating site, and within a month is coupled-up, which is of course very lovely for her and I have no doubt she will be another friend married within the next twenty four to thirty six months! (I'm 30, nearly 31.) All well and good.

I feel sad that it probably won't happen for me.

Here is the thing: I am considerably below "average" in the looks stakes. I don't have a nice figure (this isn't linked to size so much as proportions and so on) and although I do try, I am constantly fighting a losing battle against excess body hair and the like!

Now, I don't want this to turn into a "low self esteem - needs counselling" post. I don't think I have very low self esteem - I am really successful career wise, have bought my own home outright, and have a lot going on I am happy with.

But I would love a family and children.

Before people say I am young to have written myself off, I know, but unfortunately I am that person men shout abuse at when drunk in the street; I have been on dating sites more times than I've had hot dinners and haven't got further than "hey hows u" from men twenty years my senior and have had no interest throughout college, university and my post grad. I think I am realistic about my chances!

I have looked into adoption but I don't think it's for me.

It makes me sad.

Returning to this thread after reading it last night. I nearly posted this before but decided it was pointless. But here goes.

You do need counselling. It is your attitude. It is not about your looks. I was a very pretty teenager and felt all the things you did. Ugly people have sex. Attractive people get no interest at all, sometimes. Your looks are irrelevant - the only exception being online dating which is a meat market, obviously.

Take it from people who have hooked up with people. If you don't work on your self-esteem in this area - it's quite possible to feel good about yourself as a friend but bad about your potential as a lover - then you will just stay stuck. The way you're arguing with every possible positive suggestion suggests a degree of clinical depression too. Not saying you definitely are - but your thoughts on this are disordered. Now you'll argue till you're blue in the face I don't know what I'm talking about. But I am right on this. Trust me, and go with it. Even to prove me wrong, if you must. But I am not wrong.

Agree with everyone else, it really 100% is not your looks and we haven't even seen you! Anyone can look attractive if they are open, fun, friendly. I could give loads of examples of this. If it makes you feel better, I have a massive nose, sticky out ears, gappy teeth, used to have an ace figure but my waist has gone now... what are your good points, do you accentuate those? That might help to give you some more confidence in your appearance, as I wonder if that could be the problem, you might be giving off 'I think I am unattractive' vibes without realising?

As my mum says...there's a mate for everyone. After my husband left and I felt ready to date at 55 I threw myself into life, socialing, travel, taking up hobbies....never got one date in 18 months.

Then I joined a dating site and met my soon to be husband on the second date. He had recently become widowered. I obviously had to wait for him.

We were just normally attractive people .

He's out there Op and you have oodles of time and here's a little thought....you never know who is watching you.

My cousin was widowed very recently again at a relatively young age. Her mum moved to a home for elderly people at the end of last year and being the sort of lovely person she is she would chat to all the residents and their relatives. She started organising fun stuff for the residents and it all helped with the stress at home with her husband.

A couple of months after her husband had passed away she had just finished an event for the residents and was clearing up and must have said to a relative that she could go a glass of wine. He ended up taking her for a drink and love is blossoming.

That's the beauty of life. Just live it and I'm sure you do. You just never know. It can all change on the turn of a sixpence.

It isn't your looks and is your attitude, and the fact that you refuse to even give this a passing consideration is a bit of a clue for you.

I don't think the problem is low self esteem, more likely the opposite.

Will get flamed for being harsh no doubt but you're not listening to the mountains of common sense on here...

OP, what comes across is that you don't actually want a relationship and you're looking for a way to justify it. You're using your looks as this hook.

My old music teacher was like this. Overweight, no looker, but pleasant enough. Certainly no worse than any one else around, myself included. She used to go on and on and on about meeting someone. I'd offer suggestions - I met my own dh via an online dating agency and the pair of us aren't exactly gorgeous - but everything I said she'd just reject. She did loads of social stuff and music performances, so was confident and articulate. She just wasn't that motivated.

I think she felt like she should be with someone, but just wasn't that bothered deep down.

Looks are irrelevant. There's some plug ugly folks around, but they're all married, in relationships or divorced. Some are on to their second and third marriage. P

Be honest with yourself.

It's not about looks - I'm ugly and fat and still managed to find someone who wanted to marry me!

I'd agree with previous posters that the attitude you give off to others might be that you know you're unattractive so don't bother? How much effort do you make talking to others in a potential-date situation? Or do you hope someone will approach you?

If it's any consolation, I look like the bastard child of a roly poly and a pug, and someone fell for me, so I wouldn't worry about looks too much - there's someone for everyone.

If you're not getting the right matches, change the places you look would be my advice.

I think most people meet their partners young and are sexually attracted to one another on the basis of looks; as people age and wrinkle lose that affection still remains of course.

Not at all true. With the high divorce rate there are people starting new realtionships at all ages and being young does not equate with beauty.

I have known my DH for 30 years, for 20 of them we were friends and there was no spark between us. He finds me much more attractive in my 40's than in my 20's.

I agree with lots of other pp. It is all in attitude and signals. If you get to know someone and find them attractive, eye contact and smiles can make the difference. If your friends do not know that you want to be in a relationship tell them. I am sure that your close friends who care about you, male and female, would give you advice and support.

Op- I think your honesty and realism is amazing. And I don't think your here looking for solutions for a problem that is societies and not yours to control.

I have a male friend who is ugly. In looks. A beautiful person who I honestly had a crush on for a while because personality wise he is a dream man ( I often wonder if I hadn't been married would I have had the guts to go there- probably not for fear of him taking it the wrong way) . But he looks like comic book guy from the Simpsons. He spends most time being great and having hobbies and work etc but sometimes is just so rejected by the world and social norms. Because he's not going to find someone. He hasn't found anyone or anything in years ( he's older than you) and the scales don't weigh more in his favour as time and age creeps up.

I think he would perhaps be better to come to the place you have and just say ' I'm ugly yes, will I find someone? maybe never, so sod wasting time trying and wasting emotion hurting for the rejection of it'

Perhaps he would be happier for it.

Just step away from the dating sites. Obviously people are only going on looks on them and anyway even if someone is incredibly handsome/beautiful that's only a fraction of the story.

You sound an accomplished person, and have hobbies, so why not try to meet someone via an interest? The key point here is to choose an interest with lots of men. Women often think, Oh, I'll join a choir/book group/evening class. No! Take up golf, rock climbing, do circuits at the gym... something where there are men.

I'll tell you another good one: dogs. I have met lots of men dog walking, and I'm a middle-aged housewife. Plus if a bloke has a dog he can't be all bad! In fact someone I know met an actor when she was walking her dog and after bumping into each other a few times he asked her to an awards ceremony.

The fact that you appear to have left the thread because it wasn't going your way speaks volumes. You aren't too old to meet someone, but you are much to old to be throwing tantrums and blaming everyone around you for not liking your appearance.

Either take notice of the advice given here regarding asking honest opinions from friends and/or counselling, or continue sitting in you self-made pit of despair blaming everyone but yourself for your failings.

You sound pretty awesome. I'd date you. Sounds to me like there's no man good enough to date you, rather than the other way round.

But you sound like you're doing the right thing by resigning yourself to being single and just getting on with it. It might happen, it might not, but at least if you don't hope/expect then you can't be a slave to it and you can't be disappointed.

And by the way, I know perfectly beautiful-looking people who have never found their match, and completely hideous-looking people who have. I don't think it's all about looks by any means.

Wow springsprang The OP just wanted to vent. No need for your tough talk.

If people who you know and work with think you are a closet lesbian , then put them straight . Let people know you are looking for someone to have a relationship with , let them know you fancy people even if those people are on the telly etc . It sounds like people have you pigeon holed as a great mate , which is er great , but you need people to start seeing you as great girlfriend material , for them , or their friend or their brother or cousin or that bloke at work .

There is nothing wrong with a bit of honesty , tell them all you want a man

You do realise we all get yelled at by drunks on the street? Drunks yell at vulnerable people, mostly unaccompanied women, but also men that appear 'gay', or women whose accompanying male looks weaker than them. It says nothing about you. That's a voice in your head.

That you were rejected as a teen and student doesnt mean much either. Some men your age are only just beginning to look beyond tit-size and consider that women are humans first. Many relationships from that era are long over anyway, or soon to be. Statistically.

And yes, you could well be giving off a vibe that says: dont ask me. It doesnt have to be cold, or threatening to be off-putting. You see yourself as the unfanciable friend and read a lack of fancying you into everyone else's behaviour. You dont expect their interest, so see it, believe it, or react to it encouragingly. Not saying you have been ignoring hordes, but you may well have ignored a few.

What do you do when interacting with a man you find interesting? How do you send that message?,

Honestly, online dating is a horrible, horrible, horrible meatmarket and calculated to make you feel absolutely horrendous about yourself. It is highly visual - and I don't even mean that it privileges beauty. I mean that a certain kind of very conventional appearance grabs a lot of male attention. What's more devastating, that attention can be directly quantified by the number of views a profile gets.

The whole thing tends towards an extremely superficial way of looking at people. I'm not saying it doesn't work for some - but I do think it can be terribly undermining for others. I wonder if you would feel less ignored with other forms of dating, where you had more of a chance to shine? I don't know if you've tried things like speed-dating, or simply taking up an evening class or hobby where you would have a chance to meet new people? You sound like an impressive and very independent person, and i am sure that many men would love to meet someone like that.

xiaozhu - the op wanted to moan, say how it's not her fault, dismiss everyones offers of help or advice and just generally drift about all 'woe is me'. She is blaming all on her looks and refusing any notion that it might just be a little deeper than that. Is she BU for honesty? No, but she IBU for posting here then being so bloody dismissive.

You are looking at relationships as the preserve of the attractive which they are not. There are plenty of ugly people in happy relationships. It is not all about looks for everyone.

The fact that you think people assume you are lesbian makes me think that you seem very unavailable which of course is not going to attract a man. Why not be a bit more open with your friends and get their advice. Anything they say is not going to be worse that what you think already.

Sounds like you meet plenty of men - do you fancy any of them? If you do, do you let them know?

As others have said it is all in the attitude. You have pretty much accepted that you are too ugly for a relationship - what kind of attitude is that? Would you let your own children write themselves off in such a way? I think maybe you are afraid of getting rejected/too close to someone so have written yourself off.

I think you really need to talk openly with friends about this to get a bit of perspective.

And the OP has said that she already does / has done all the suggestions on this thread. Makeovers, hobbies, flirting, positive attitudes etc. etc. So castigating her for not rushing off to do them all again is pointless.

I did wonder about whether the 'closeted lesbian' thing could be true, like a PP, and didn't see if OP answered that. You sound quite traditional in your attitudes OP (like no casual sex etc.) Nothing wrong with that, unless it is causing you to suppress your feelings in a way that's causing you unhappiness.

I'm not going to add to any of the really excellent advice already on the thread, or tell you to do x, y or z to attract a man into your life, but if you're going to do one thing, then please try to shake off this conviction that 'it won't happen for me'. It hasn't happened for you yet. That doesn't mean it never will. There is no rule that all the good things in your life have to happen before you're 30. I met my DP at 41 (friend of a friend, at a sporting event, neither of us are god-like) - we're both agreed it's the best relationship we've ever had, and yet neither of us could have been in it before then, thanks to less happy circumstances.

While you're so convinced that it'll never happen, you're actively preventing yourself looking for the tiny signals that someone might be interested, as well as sending out a strong subliminal 'no thanks' in general. You're determined not to believe any of the anecdotal evidence anyone's suggested on here! If you live in the county I think you do, then yup, it's going to be thinner pickings than if you were in Fulham or Manchester. But it's not impossible. I agree with others that it's time to let your friends know that actually, no, you're NOT a closet lesbian, and though your life is pretty great, you WOULD like to find someone to share it with. You do sound funny and sorted, and I bet they've been dying to try to set up you with single friends for ages, but assumed you weren't interested, or were worried they'd make a faux pas by suggesting the wrong variety of friend...

Fwiw: I'm not that attractive, plus I am not invested in my looks. I've always been attracted to people with a passion/ hobby/ drive over their looks. My husband had never had a long term relationship, he for a few years thought "who'd date me". But as he matured he became comfy in his own skin, until that confident/ relaxed and grounded persona became very attractive to lots of people. (I am very lucky).

I also find him very attractive. Particularly his smile. People look for things they recognise and admire in a partner.

Sorry, not sure I put that very well - I don't mean, start thinking, 'It'll happen for me soon!' in a kind of mad-eyed, Positive Thinking way. Just stop thinking it won't. Leave a gap. Que sera sera.

Bite the bullet and start by asking a man out, the worst they can say is no. You don't have to be initially strongly attracted to someone for a relationship to grow. In my work place I can think of two single men ( both a bit geeky and shy) lovely guys though, ordinary looking but not ugly Probably have no success on dating sites either but would make someone a lovely husband.

Does your social network (ie friends but also acquaintances) know you are looking for a relationship? Do they suggest meeting men of the acquaintance who might want to date you? Not even in a blind date way - more we are going out/having a barbeque so and so there he wants to met you - kind of way?

If people are assuming you are gay - are you correcting them - working out what's giving the misleading impression?

I think the focus on looks is a red herring but is obviously over emphasised some on-line dating - though there is an emphasis in your posts about men needing to look good as well as your own appearance - are you being realistic - while many of us celebrities not many of us are actually attractive enough to attract them. Are you in an unusually mega attractive social group - therefore being over looked or pool of potentials for you isn't a wide as it should be or squeezing with your acceptable looking meter?

Why the focus on looks? Looks are part of the sexual attraction - but personality, pheromones and how they treat you are also up there very high too.

My own mother was not a looker - great figure but a face that was grown into. She was slightly older than her friends and my dad was bit older than her but she found someone. There are many people who don't look great yet get married and have DC.

I do think you are being sensible - going out and enjoying life - though I do think it maybe worth checking with close friends that your perception of your looks isn't meaning you miss any I'm interested singles from men you like.

Though do get why you are frustrated and think it sucks a bit - in unlikely event it is just your looks.