to compare being a parent who smokes to a parent on heroin

[candidkate]

My friend smokes, she has a DD, she was talking about Peaches Geldof and how selfish she was for being on heroin and thus overdosing in an (alleged) suicide attempt.

I then said (nicely I promise) lets not judge other moms especially celebs who we know nothing about. Substance abuse is a huge demon and considering the fact that you have a fag attached to your hand 80% of the time I'm sure you can relate to having a demon and still loving your kids!

She then said "How can you compare" the two

I said that drug use has a much uglier face than fags but fags kill way more people every year and in proportion to heroin usage probably just as many as its users. I also pointed out that just because she smokes her death stick in a nice zara coat and some drug addicts are homeless and scruffy doesn't mean one is more acceptable as a parent than the other. Both puts your child and yourself at risk. Both are slowly killing you.

Now bare in mind I am fully aware that people will prostitute themselves and be in and out of prison for drugs. I am aware of the horrid social aspect that comes with it....but this was relevant to the argument as we were speaking about peaces geldof who i doubt pimped her kids and took them to crack houses and let them starve.

So the main focus on the argument was health. In that regards I stand by what i said ..... health wise...can a parent puffing away really judge a parent snorting a few lines / shooting up?

In my view...smoking just kills you slower than smack and is legal.

And this is not an attack on parents who smoke at all it is a horrid demon to battle and I know you all love your kids if you do smoke...I just think it being deemed as "less" harmful than other thigns is a copout

Hmmm, difficult one. I get your point but alcohol kills more people than heroin each year, are we including that as well?

Im not a smoker and never have been but I think YABU.

Smoking cigarettes does not affect your ability to parent. It does not alter your personality. It does not render you unable to act, react, move, talk.

Whilst cigarette smoking will of course contribute and directly affect your overall health, a cigarette then and there in the moment is not a fatal risk.

YABU.

Smoking isnt phychoactive I suppose, so your judgement would not be impaired. Whereas on heroin, a parent might not be able to respond appropriately to their kid or deal with an emergency/accident etc

In terms of risk of disease/death YANBU, smoking is very bad and kills a lot of people.
Its also a very good example of a physically addictive substance so it was an appropriate comparison if your friend was being unsympathetic to the difficulties of giving up heroin.

ThinkIveBeenHacked As i said in my OP i understand the difference in the social aspects and i 100% agree with you. I mean the comment on peaches being selfish for taking her life and endangering her health because she is a mom is a double standard because smokers do the exact same thing in regards to health!

Or am i far too off base?

YABU, judgemental, and bloody offensive. If you came out with shit like that to me, you wouldn't be my friend anymore. You'd be relegated to the 'sanctimonious twat' box. And I don't even smoke.

Yabu. And I can't believe you're comparing a smoker to a heroin addict.

There was a mother of a child at my son's school who was on smack, in fact both parents were. She would come weaving up the drive to pick her child up, totally off her tits. That's if she picked him up at all. I cannot even begin to imagine what that child's home life was like. She eventually had him taken off her and the dad ended up in prison.

The two don't even compare.

I agree that we should not judge but I think it was a bad connection to draw. I didn't find smoking a "horrid demon to battle", I just liked it.

On your original point you weren't unreasonable but it DOES come across as an attack on smokers and it probably came across as an attack on your friend.

In future just stick to sharing this which I think is perfectly on the mark. No need to mention smoking at all.

We don't start with needles in our arms

Video version (scroll right down)

dashoflime She has no sympathy for addiction whatsoever which is why i made the comparison. And to be fair many users of drugs actually lead pretty decent lives and are decent parents. It's moreso your socio-economical standing (in some instances) which dictates how much drugs effect you. When you have buckets of money and don't need to do horrid things for drugs you already are at an advantage. You don't need to wear dirty clothes or look skinny and horrid because you have a cleaner a nanny and the weekly ocado dropoff.

Trust me I've seen housewives on valium/cocaine who look pristine everyday and do the school run! You'd never ever ever ever ever think they had a problem.

YABU and sanctimonious.

Being a smoker cuts 5-10 years off your life expectancy.
The average life expectancy for a heroin addict is 10-15 years after they get addicted.
Not to mention that even functioning addicts will be noticeably impaired and less able to parent, where as a smoker isn't.
Do you want to also compare obesity with heroin addiction? You could make the same weak arguments you are making to your friend...

That's a very valid post Hacked.

You can put alcohol in the same category as heroin in that respect, which you can't tobacco (maybe habitual smokers going outside a lot 'watching through the window' run a greater risk of the odd child falling over) - I'm yet to hear of anyone passing out on the sofa for smoking too many cigarettes.

Sorry don't agree at all. I had a mother and father who both smoked. I couldn't have asked for better parents. Me and my siblings were all well looked after and loved. If I'd have had heroin addicts as parents I wouldn't have had a childhood. Ridiculous comparison.

BertieBotts I understand i was talking in the context of addiction. If you are addicted and have kids of course it's a horrid demon. Some people's lives have been destroyed by smoking. I've gone to the funerals. I've seen the Chemo.

I think YABU to compare the two, but you have a point about addiction. Smoking is probably more addictive than heroin. In fact, I have never known a drug addict who doesn't smoke cigarettes too, and I have known a few people who have managed to quit heroin.

Oh god, just when I thought you couldn't get any worse
Trust me I've seen housewives on valium/cocaine
Because they're the same thing, right

YABU and a bit of a knob. My mum smoked and I couldn't have asked for a more loving, selfless, funny, committed mother.I think smoking only becomes an issue if you're smoking inside with the child/in a confined space like a car/sacrificing things your DC needs to buy cigarettes. My mother never smoked inside, would change her top as soon as she came back in from smoking and brushed her teeth; not once did she choose a cigarette over me, the way many people addicted to hard drugs chose them over thir children.

If you thought someone was a model parent and many years later found that they smoked, would you change your mind on how they are as a parent?

Yabu. Lots of parents smoke but are great parents, you are less likely to light a cigarette and die because of it in 24 hours than you are with heroin.

SpareChange - Please read the thread before you jump the gun - I said i wasnt attacking smokers I know they love their kids AND i know its a horrid thing to try and kick. I was actually defending all people who have an addiction and saying you can't place one above the other.

How can you be a good active parent when you cannot walk without a nebulizer, are wheelchair bound and cant talk because of the hole in your throat you have to breathe out of? Why is smoking still surrounded by these socially acceptable strange myths.

How can you be a good parent when you are bed bound from the chemo rounds you have to go through because of the cancer in your lungs?

Drug addiction isn't less worthy of pity than the 90% of people who give themselves lung cancer by smoking. It's a bitter pill to swallow and sounds very harsh to read or say out loud but there you go.

And as for comparing life expectancy that's ridiculous - being better than the (alleged) worst does not make you good! Just because you aren't shooting up in a crack house doesn't mean smoking is okay or not harmful to you and your kids future. That was my main point. Don't judge when you inhale your death every half an hour!

It's difficult.. I agree with others that it doesn't disrupt parenting like heroin would, make you commit crimes for a fix, hang around with scummy people, be useless when you're high.. but I do notice my DP gets tetchy with DS when he hasn't had a cig for a while.. I often think he wouldn't feel like that without this addiction so it is affecting how he is sometimes.
And cigs are the bigger killer.. I've just lost my dad to lung cancer, admittedly it did take 60 years of smoking to do it though.

MadgeFinn and Missmonkeypenny Here we bloody go with the posters who say fuck the OP i'm going to read words that are not there and make up a post that doesn't exist

I NEVER said smoking made you a bad parent.
I BLATANTLY said the social aspects are different but the HEALTH ones are fair to compare.
I also said all parents love their kids no matter what demons they battle. Remember that bit? I'm not being rude but it's quite a serious topic and it's ridiculous how many people love to twist words and have a go on MN.

And as for comparing life expectancy that's ridiculous
Err, that was the point you made in your original post. So if you are happy to clarify that your OP was ridiculous.

And as for ow can you be a good active parent when you cannot walk without a nebulizer
So obese parents, parents with asthma, parents with COPD. Good to know you consider them little better than heroin addicts as well..!

... which didn't affect his ability to parent, but absolutely did affect his ability to grandparents as he couldn't hold his baby grandson as he was so weak. I do now see cigarettes in a more negative light than before and a seriously horrible addiction.

MrsTedCrilly Thanks for being honest....I think i was very clear about the context in which i made the comparison i even made it in bold in the post saying i was speaking about health and not the social aspect of things. With drug addiction comes financial difficulty, neglect etc....I was speaking about my friends comments on peaches health and death due to her drug use as she obviously wasn't dragging her kids to crack dens everyday!!!!!!

OP you are digging a bigger hole for yourself with every post...
You "never said smoking made you a bad parent"
You actually said: "[it] doesn't mean one is more acceptable as a parent than the other. Both puts your child and yourself at risk"
So you are saying smoking parents and heroin addict parents are the same. Are you saying that heroin addiction doesn't make you a bad parent then?

And this is not an attack on parents who smoke at all

20 mins later ...

Just because you aren't shooting up in a crack house doesn't mean smoking is okay or not harmful to you and your kids future. That was my main point. Don't judge when you inhale your death every half an hour!