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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to compare being a parent who smokes to a parent on heroin

213 replies

candidkate · 08/04/2015 13:53

My friend smokes, she has a DD, she was talking about Peaches Geldof and how selfish she was for being on heroin and thus overdosing in an (alleged) suicide attempt.

I then said (nicely I promise) lets not judge other moms especially celebs who we know nothing about. Substance abuse is a huge demon and considering the fact that you have a fag attached to your hand 80% of the time I'm sure you can relate to having a demon and still loving your kids!

She then said "How can you compare" the two

I said that drug use has a much uglier face than fags but fags kill way more people every year and in proportion to heroin usage probably just as many as its users. I also pointed out that just because she smokes her death stick in a nice zara coat and some drug addicts are homeless and scruffy doesn't mean one is more acceptable as a parent than the other. Both puts your child and yourself at risk. Both are slowly killing you.

Now bare in mind I am fully aware that people will prostitute themselves and be in and out of prison for drugs. I am aware of the horrid social aspect that comes with it....but this was relevant to the argument as we were speaking about peaces geldof who i doubt pimped her kids and took them to crack houses and let them starve.

So the main focus on the argument was health. In that regards I stand by what i said ..... health wise...can a parent puffing away really judge a parent snorting a few lines / shooting up?

In my view...smoking just kills you slower than smack and is legal.

OP posts:
LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 08/04/2015 17:06

I understand your point OP. We all do judge, much as I wish it wasn't so, we do.

My mum is very judgemental of my SIL who drinks a lot of wine (and I mean a lot). I remind my mum that she used to smoke over the top of my head when I was sitting on her lap, in cars with windows closed... and we were very short of money. That meant that she was quite ratty with us when she couldn't smoke what she wanted to.

I just said to her, stop judging - SIL doesn't and has never smoked. Maybe she judges us?

Nobody is perfect, and there's nothing really to be gained from your friend making digs about a heroin addict because there is no 'league table', it's s a horrid addiction, all addictions are horrible (IMO), there's nothing like feeling that you've lost control to bash your self-esteem.

StillStayingClassySanDiego · 08/04/2015 17:06

I don't think they are 'fabrications' of words, you did use those descriptions.

Original poster
candidkate · 08/04/2015 17:07

GahBuggerit The entire thread has not reacted the same and a couple of people have even admitted to not reading the OP properly. I think because smoking is so socially accepted and parenting is a touchy subject people are jumping to conclusions. I think because drug addicts are so despised by society comparing them to anything but dog shit upsets people....throw in the word parent and boom.

OP posts:
expatinscotland · 08/04/2015 17:07

'Who is my friend to judge and say such horrid things against people plagued with addiction when she suffers from her own form of addiction which would give her cancer thus taking her away from her kids? '

Probably not a friend of yours anymore. She might get cancer, she might not, but if she hangs round you, she'll definitely get killjoy-itis.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 08/04/2015 17:09

I winced a bit at the wheelchair comment but again know (or think I do) what OP meant... she meant that being in a wheelchair having smoked was a self-elected 'choice', ie. you smoke, you run the risk. Nothing at all to do with people who find themselves in wheelchairs from birth, accident or disability of some kind.

If she meant something else I'm sure she'll explain.

Original poster
candidkate · 08/04/2015 17:09

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Thanks for actually reading my post and appreciating the essence of the argument which was totally about being non judgmental and open to everyones struggles. No struggle is better / easier than another. Some people eat themselves to death, some people smoke themselves to death....some people snort drugs to death. All addictions, all sad, all health hazards, call can be done by people who love their kids...

OP posts:
StillStayingClassySanDiego · 08/04/2015 17:10

Smoking isn't as socially acceptable anymore is it? hence people having to go outside in the freezing cold or rain to have a fag as they're barred from smoking indoors or in a work vehicle.

keepsmiling2015 · 08/04/2015 17:11

I do actually understand what you're saying op in regards to the addiction aspect.

You haven't done yourself much favors though.

GahBuggerit · 08/04/2015 17:11

"The entire thread"

I said NEARLY the entire thread.

Which is correct, and not fabricated Smile

I dont despise addicts of any sort, I dont call them smackheads either. because I DO have empathy.

midnight1983 · 08/04/2015 17:12

Having grown up with both parents on heroin I feel qualified to tell you YABU. Whilst smoking with children around is bad, it doesn't come close to using drugs in a child's presence and trying to be their parent.

Fanfeckintastic · 08/04/2015 17:14

Sorry I didn't RTFT, did your friend smoke when pregnant OP?

PlentyOfPubeGardens · 08/04/2015 17:16

I think the notion of 'choice' when it comes to smoking is a bit moot. The majority of smokers start as children and the vast majority of quit attempts end in failure.

I also think it's a bit dodgy to start trying to separate disabilities into those caused by people's choices and those caused by rotten luck. Most accidents, for example, are avoidable, and you don't get people heaping scorn on those who have become disabled after making 'naice' choices like skiing, horse riding or driving off for a lovely holiday.

PlentyOfPubeGardens · 08/04/2015 17:17

And smoking is so not socially acceptable these days!

SistersofPercy · 08/04/2015 17:19

I was 36 when my Dad died of Lung Cancer age 75. Hardly orphaned.

Original poster
candidkate · 08/04/2015 17:20

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Of course that's what i meant....why is someone on drugs a bad parent for putting themselve in a state where their care for their child is altered...but a smoker isnt? It's not fair. No one would say "You piece of shit smoker you're in a wheelchair you cant run around with your kids and do xyz" so why throw jabs at an addict (within reason) who has also put themselves in a bad position. You cannot actively parent if you are very very ill from smoking I'll stand by that I did not say you cannot be a good parent .....but it's pretty hard to be very active confined to a nebulizer and a wheelchair I've seen people (sadly) not able to hold a conversation with their kids without coughing and wheezing and nearly collapsing it's no life yet it's met with sympathy empathy and love and so it should be. Addicts deserve the same whats so wrong with that?

And please don't tell extreme stories of kids being staved to death etc all people of all walks of life are sick not just addicts. I've heard with my own ears "your gonna have to share that pizza between the 4 of you i need to buy fags" - it's sad it affects everyone.

OP posts:
Original poster
candidkate · 08/04/2015 17:22

midnight1983 The OP wasnt about parenting and neither was the argument with my friend please read OP properly.

OP posts:
Original poster
candidkate · 08/04/2015 17:23

SistersofPercy That does't mean other children haven't been. Sorry for your loss.

OP posts:
Original poster
candidkate · 08/04/2015 17:24

PlentyOfPubeGardens In regards to parenting it is.

OP posts:
Original poster
candidkate · 08/04/2015 17:26

expatinscotland We are still friends she's coming over later :) I'm a bundle of joy just don't think drug addicts should be stereotyped or treated as pieces of shit with no feels incapable of loving their children thats all xox

OP posts:
LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 08/04/2015 17:26

PlentyOff... I understand your point as well... we choose to ride horses, catch planes, drive cars. There are though, some risks that we actively choose and that would include smoking because it's known that it's likely to cause harm, there's no getting away from that. Children who smoke do so because they think they're invincible and the idea of dying at 50 from smoking just doesn't scare them as teens because '50 is old anyway'.

A lot of it does come down to rotten luck, that's very true. Some people do things with no consequence whilst others doing the same thing, face the full impact of their actions. It's not equal, not even sure if it's 'fair' but it's how it is.

I smoked for 20 years. Wish I'd never started. It's a stupid, horrid habit IMO and it's sad that it has such horrible consequences. Ditto any addiction. That's how I feel about it anyway. Some kill you quickly, some slowly - and some not at all because you get hit by a bus beforehand. Everybody dies.

Alisvolatpropiis · 08/04/2015 17:26

A great many children in care are there because the parents are drug addicts. Being a heroin addict, generally speaking, isn't merely a question of being addicted to that substance, there is a chaotic lifestyle which goes hand in hand with it.

The same cannot, generally speaking, be said of smokers.

If we have to compare legal substance use to illegal substance use, then it would surely be alcohol rather than smoking, which fits the bill?

Alcohol addiction can affect people's ability to parent a great deal and after a certain point, chaotic lifestyles are not uncommon.

Original poster
candidkate · 08/04/2015 17:28

Fanfeckintastic Yes she did....20 a day...didn't give a shit....said it was okay because the baby was at a normal weight....she justifies it to this saying "she was worn healthy". Did i judge her? No. How sad is it to be so addicted to fags that you smoke while your oregnant. I was so sorry for her. Very sad.

OP posts:
LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 08/04/2015 17:28

Thought that was what you meant CandidKate, wanted to head off the 'wheelchair' comment at the pass because that has the potential for a lot of assumptions and anger from some posters who will not have thought about what somebody could mean by that.

midnight1983 · 08/04/2015 17:30

Ok fair point. But still, your op States that parents who smoke are not able to judge parents who are on heroin as health wise it's just as bad - it's not and YABU.

PlentyOfPubeGardens · 08/04/2015 17:31

In regards to parenting it is

Eh? Smoking is socially acceptable in regards to parenting? Confused

Even after you have explained further I still find these comments shocking:

How can you be a good active parent when you cannot walk without a nebulizer, are wheelchair bound and cant talk because of the hole in your throat you have to breathe out of?

How can you be a good parent when you are bed bound from the chemo rounds you have to go through because of the cancer in your lungs?