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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to compare being a parent who smokes to a parent on heroin

213 replies

candidkate · 08/04/2015 13:53

My friend smokes, she has a DD, she was talking about Peaches Geldof and how selfish she was for being on heroin and thus overdosing in an (alleged) suicide attempt.

I then said (nicely I promise) lets not judge other moms especially celebs who we know nothing about. Substance abuse is a huge demon and considering the fact that you have a fag attached to your hand 80% of the time I'm sure you can relate to having a demon and still loving your kids!

She then said "How can you compare" the two

I said that drug use has a much uglier face than fags but fags kill way more people every year and in proportion to heroin usage probably just as many as its users. I also pointed out that just because she smokes her death stick in a nice zara coat and some drug addicts are homeless and scruffy doesn't mean one is more acceptable as a parent than the other. Both puts your child and yourself at risk. Both are slowly killing you.

Now bare in mind I am fully aware that people will prostitute themselves and be in and out of prison for drugs. I am aware of the horrid social aspect that comes with it....but this was relevant to the argument as we were speaking about peaces geldof who i doubt pimped her kids and took them to crack houses and let them starve.

So the main focus on the argument was health. In that regards I stand by what i said ..... health wise...can a parent puffing away really judge a parent snorting a few lines / shooting up?

In my view...smoking just kills you slower than smack and is legal.

OP posts:
Original poster
candidkate · 08/04/2015 15:10

KoalaDownUnder Wasn't talking about parenting LOL read the post please....was speaking about endangering your life and potentially orphaning your child. Even my friend knew that's what we were speaking about so it's strange that you guys don't.
She was saying being a smoker health wise (as be both agreed on the devastating social aspects of illegal drugs) was 1000000000000% better (literally) than drugs even though proportionally smoking kills just as many or more people than drug addiction this is a fact.
I don't judge anybody my mum ran a foster home I've grown up with kids from all walks of life some at school crying because because their dad is dying of lung cancer some crying because their mom's nose has collapsed when it gets down to it both leave kids without parents and both endanger the health of the user both deserve support and sympathy

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daisychain01 · 08/04/2015 15:10

I would have kept my mouth shut if I had been in your situation. When you get in a hold, stop digging ....

Lilylonglegs · 08/04/2015 15:11

I get the point you were trying to make. Simply that she shouldn't be so harsh and judgemental when she can't even kick her own addiction!

thecatfromjapan · 08/04/2015 15:13

To the poster who asked if not giving a friend a hard time about smoking equals collusion/abetting her addiction ...
so many answers but, in short, no. I'd see my te as enabling someone to talk, find strength and desire for positive change.
After many years on this planet, I think I can safely say that those are my skills.
I leave being hard-nosed to those who have a gift for that.

daisychain01 · 08/04/2015 15:13

When you get in a hole, stop digging ....

Some discussions are so emotive, the risk is that you may end up sacrificing a friendship just for the sake of being right.

Original poster
candidkate · 08/04/2015 15:14

KoalaDownUnder Again...read the post wasn't comparing it in its entirety to heroin use even wrote it in bold ...was just comparing the health risk and the amount of people each thing kills and how each one is hard to beat.

OP posts:
PlentyOfPubeGardens · 08/04/2015 15:17

She was saying being a smoker health wise (as be both agreed on the devastating social aspects of illegal drugs) was 1000000000000% better (literally) than drugs even though proportionally smoking kills just as many or more people than drug addiction this is a fact.

Where are you getting your stats from? What do you make of the David Nutt chart I posted? There's a more broken down version here - it shows the proportionate death risk from heroin as about twice that of smoking (drug-specific + drug-related mortality).

to compare being a parent who smokes to a parent on heroin
Original poster
candidkate · 08/04/2015 15:17

daisychain01 I'm not here to slag off my friend (who is reading this post and is coming over later for some wine she's not upset and actually agrees with me after all) but she was saying some really harsh things to make me even say what i said. She didn't just make one comment and I just rammed my opinion down her throat what crap. You are angrier at me than she was :) We left it and walked to get the kids christ.

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StillStayingClassySanDiego · 08/04/2015 15:20

How do you feel about people who like to drink alcohol?

Littlemonstersrule · 08/04/2015 15:21

Smoking when pregnant puts your child at risk likewise taking drugs or drinking alcohol when pregnant does too.

When the child is born, the parent taking drugs is dangerous as it can result in a lack of care etc likewise with drinking. Smoking doesn't have that instant effect but others effects like knowing your habit will likely take you from your chidlren earlier or the second hand smoke damage their health over a period of time.

Drug use is far worse than smoking so no direct comparison cannot be made apart from they are both addictions and can both affect children.

Original poster
candidkate · 08/04/2015 15:24

PlentyOfPubeGardens Facts and figures will always vary you can't just use that one source. I'm not even being silly when I say that by the way I can google a thousand other charts that will validate my view. Well not even my view its a chart like yours which told me smoking kills more people than heroin.

Look - at the end of the day the argument was about peoples right to judge and whats seen as more socially acceptable regarding how we treat our health. When you have kids, you have a responsibility to keep yourself around for as long as possible so you can care for your precious children.

this principle applies to everyone and drug addicts shouldn't be branded as loving their children less because their battle has an uglier face.

Being better than the worst doesn't make you good - forget the comparison if you don't care for it. Addiction is tough for everyone and everyone deserves sympathy for their struggle. My friend was literally saying I'm a smoker and that's okay because it's not the same as being on crack. That's bullshit sorry.

Thats all.

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ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 08/04/2015 15:24

I think I read a different OP to most people Confused

I read it as the OP saying to her friend
"How can you judge someone for failing in their battle with a socially unacceptable harmful addiction when you yourself are in the grip of a socially acceptable harmful addiction."

Both of these addictions are likely to hasten your physical decline and death, albeit at different rates.

meowth · 08/04/2015 15:28

YABSFU and a bit offensive, tbh. i know what it's like to be a smoker, and I know what it's like to look in on someone who is addicted to heroin. Don't ever, ever think those are the same things. i can stop, that person couldn't. Dont' think it's easy get off cigs because it's not, but it's almost damn near impossible to go cold turkey on heroin.

Don't compare the two. Heroin is a vile, nasty drug. everyone in my family smokes and not one person in my whole family has had cancer. not in the bloodline, anyway. We've had drug addiction and alcoholism and mental health problems. if my grandmother died of cancer, we'd all stop, but seeing as no one in my family has ever had cancer, it's the least of our worries, i think suicide and mental illness is more important than smoking a cigarette, you know, since suicide is the biggest killer of men in this country, topping cancer & cardiac arrest? no? this is why i think smoking is okay-ish, it's not killed one person in our family. Alcohol did, though.

Original poster
candidkate · 08/04/2015 15:29

StillStayingClassySanDiego I feel no matter what your demons are you can still love your kids and kick whatever problem you have. We all fall short. Some crack addicts leave their kids for days on end. Some women with no addictions leave there kids for days on end. Some people with addiction wake up every morning do the school run and pick the kids up and make dinner. Addiction comes in different degrees and has different effects on people. It's silly to lump every drug addict in the same box.

Previously in the thread I told you about my history teacher who was an alcoholic, had a clean drivers license, came in on time and had a 80% A grade rate for our class. She drank about 4 bottles of wine a day. Hair always dyed and blowdried to perfection. Never smelt of anything but Chanel No 5!!!!!

OP posts:
sparechange · 08/04/2015 15:29

my friend (who is reading this post and is coming over later for some wine
So you berate her for smoking, but feed her wine? Confused

Original poster
candidkate · 08/04/2015 15:30

meowth Do not know what post you read but it wasnt mine wasnt comparing the two in the way that you are saying....sorry love x

OP posts:
meowth · 08/04/2015 15:33

apologies. got a bit angry.

Original poster
candidkate · 08/04/2015 15:34

sparechange I didnt berate her stop making things up I was saying everyone deserves love care support and no judgement in regards to their addiction and how it effects their health and that everyone loves their kids no mater what their shortcomings....and that no shortcoming has more nobility over the other in regards to health risk....if you are putting your health at risk and you have kids its not a good situation to be in. It doesnt matter whether you do it in a nice jacket or a crack den. Smoking kills. Heroin kills. Whats with the judgement. - that was my point....that we all have bloody demons to battle never once in my post did i mention parenting or any of the strange random things you have been plucking out of thin air on this post. I didn't berate her for smoking i berated her for judging. Please read and pay attention youre making things up its not fair

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PlentyOfPubeGardens · 08/04/2015 15:36

Facts and figures will always vary you can't just use that one source. I'm not even being silly when I say that by the way I can google a thousand other charts that will validate my view. Well not even my view its a chart like yours which told me smoking kills more people than heroin.

You don't need to google a thousand, just one citation will do. It's a bit of a shocking stat if true and one I've never come across before, so I'm wondering where you got it from. If it was true I would expect tobacco control to have jumped on it by now and used it in one of their scary media campaigns.

Smoking is a massively damaging addiction that kills half of all regular users but it is not the same as being on crack or heroin, especially when it comes to effects on parenting ability.

Original poster
candidkate · 08/04/2015 15:37

Wait.....how many people have actually genuinely genuinely read the post in it's entirety. We were not arguing about addiction in general we were arguing about being unhealthy and having kids!

OP posts:
Original poster
candidkate · 08/04/2015 15:38

PlentyOfPubeGardens No one was speaking about parenting abilities please can you copy and paste where I said that in my OP xox

OP posts:
Feminine · 08/04/2015 15:38

Oops! another idea that should have stayed in someones head...
Grin

BodleianLibrarianook · 08/04/2015 15:40

My stepdad was a smack addict. My mum was sober.
Guess who made sure there was food in the kitchen, clothes on my back and money for school trips?

It wasn't my mum.

Stick that in your tinfoil and smoke it.

BodleianLibrarianook · 08/04/2015 15:42

Oh. She smoked though.

Original poster
candidkate · 08/04/2015 15:44

BodleianLibrarianook - I believe you. My mom scrimped and saved for my sister to go to private school and I was exposed to a whole other face of drug addiction. People in high profile jobs and heaps of responsibility snorting in the toilet at work....mums having a line before the school run who seemed perfectly normal. Madness.

OP posts: