to compare being a parent who smokes to a parent on heroin

[candidkate]

My friend smokes, she has a DD, she was talking about Peaches Geldof and how selfish she was for being on heroin and thus overdosing in an (alleged) suicide attempt.

I then said (nicely I promise) lets not judge other moms especially celebs who we know nothing about. Substance abuse is a huge demon and considering the fact that you have a fag attached to your hand 80% of the time I'm sure you can relate to having a demon and still loving your kids!

She then said "How can you compare" the two

I said that drug use has a much uglier face than fags but fags kill way more people every year and in proportion to heroin usage probably just as many as its users. I also pointed out that just because she smokes her death stick in a nice zara coat and some drug addicts are homeless and scruffy doesn't mean one is more acceptable as a parent than the other. Both puts your child and yourself at risk. Both are slowly killing you.

Now bare in mind I am fully aware that people will prostitute themselves and be in and out of prison for drugs. I am aware of the horrid social aspect that comes with it....but this was relevant to the argument as we were speaking about peaces geldof who i doubt pimped her kids and took them to crack houses and let them starve.

So the main focus on the argument was health. In that regards I stand by what i said ..... health wise...can a parent puffing away really judge a parent snorting a few lines / shooting up?

In my view...smoking just kills you slower than smack and is legal.

PlentyOfPubeGardens Funny how we know the minds of smoking pregnant ladies and they deserve all the empathy and sympathy in the world....but drug users don't. This type of double standard and judgemental rhetoric is what started the argument. If someone came on here saying I'm on cocaine I'm pregnant and i can't stop they would be destroyed and yet smoking mothers get their own section of MN where they can support one another. And rightly so.....but where was the support for peaches? Where was the empathy for peaches? ...Thats what the argument was about.....

MoanCollins No one is debating the obvious social aspects that come with drug addiction. There's a nice big bold bit in my OP that outlines this for posters who like to just jump on people in AIBU for no reason. I meant that she has her own personal demon and addiction which could very well take her away from her kids at some point...she even smoked while pregnant....so why why why why why be so nasty to someone who is obviously in a lot of pain and sadly ended their life!

That's still not the point, Moan. The point is if you can't give up a drug like nicotine, which is much easier to give up than heroin for many, many reasons, you can't really judge someone else for not managing it. Similarly, if you try to avoid normal every day boredom and craving through your low level addiction, you should t judge someone who has been drawn to try harder drugs because of far greater issues with experiential avoidance.

We're all in the same soup. We like to pretend addicts are other/different because the consequences of addiction in society are horrendous, but they're basically just the same as any of the rest of us, they've just made choices that they ended up not being able to control. Judging addicts as lesser is just another way of avoiding reality, we all screw up and lack control and make the wrong choices. Most of us are just lucky enough not to end up destroying our lives and bodies as we do so.

Parents who smoke infront of their kids are putting their kids' physical health at risk (asthma, inhaling chemicals). Parents who smoke when they are pregnant do affect their baby's health (smaller babies). Parents who are addicted to alcohol will affect their kids' mental health and physical health if they drink excessively during preg (fetal alc syndrome). Parents who are addicted to heroine will affect their kids' mental health due to their behaviour.

They all affect the children one way or another, but in different shades and in different ways. Smoking and heroine addiction are not the same but both do harm the child in one way or another.

duplodon Thanks....I've reread my post a few times trying to see where people are getting the "smokers are bad parents" rhetoric from and I do not bloody see? Where did i say that? I think the post was clearly about being supportive and not especially when you have your own demons?

everyone

Why does someones addiction get to have a prettier face than someone elses? You cannot assume to know how people run their house we are not god. People without addiction have to have their kids taken from them...people with post natal depression sometimes cannot cope and have their kids taken from them...yet to assume that post natal depression = social services taking DC is ridiculous, ill informed and ignorant

Not all drug addicts have kids....not all drug addicts with kids are leaving them at home for days on end to get high as myself and other posters have outlined....and those people ...like peaches...deserve a little more empathy...you can struggle with something and be a good parent ... Loads of people are secretly addicts and you would not even know

I hate smoking and silently judge parents who smoke.

That said, it's a far greater lapse in judgement to try heroin than it is a cigarette. I think this is why there's less sympathy for drug abusers than smokers (I'm just using standard parlance, I realize they're both drugs).

GoodbyeToAllOfThat I can handle less sympathy but no sympathy and high handedness as though smoking is okay is hypocritical and horrid.

Yes, I agree. I can imagine that a drug addiction is pretty horrible. It sounds like Peaches Geldof almost had her addiction under control - very sad indeed.

PlentyOfPubeGardens Funny how we know the minds of smoking pregnant ladies and they deserve all the empathy and sympathy in the world....but drug users don't. This type of double standard and judgemental rhetoric is what started the argument. If someone came on here saying I'm on cocaine I'm pregnant and i can't stop they would be destroyed and yet smoking mothers get their own section of MN where they can support one another. And rightly so.....but where was the support for peaches? Where was the empathy for peaches? ...Thats what the argument was about.....

Sorry but wtf are you going on about now? Who is saying that drug users don't deserve empathy and sympathy? Not me!

Thats what the argument was about

That may be what your argument is about. It appears nobody much is disagreeing so I'm not sure who you think you are arguing with. People are however responding to all your posts, not just the OP. They're allowed to do that, it's how a forum works.

I'm out, but I'll just leave you with this: Peaches Geldof took a fatal overdose of heroin while in sole charge of her baby. The baby was left alone with her dead body for hours. Hardly 'holding the fort'.

PlentyOfPubeGardens ...................
The kids were not in the house
Everyone said she was an amazing mother.
Her husband family friends the nanny everyone.
Not that newspapers are a good source....the OP even says we don't know anything about celeb drama and was clearly about battling addiction and loving your kids all the same....
Christ. Whats with the fiction?

Newspapers may not always be a good source but a lie of that magnitude would have been removed by now, even in the Daily Mail. Or the Mirror or the Independent or the BBC ...

but i would say specifically in peaches scenario, wasn't she alone with her children in the house when she died? that means they were left effectively alone with their dead mother.. and they have to grow up with that. I'm not sure a smoker runs much of that same immediate risk.

I do hate smoking, especially during pregnancy, but on that note wasn't it in the news not that long ago that new research suggests drinking alocohol whilst pregnant is as bad as taking heroin? but at the end of it we all know what's bad for us and what we should/shouldn't do, but just because we're parents doesn't make us superhuman and we can all fall short of the mark in some area...

OK OP, I'm not a fan of any parent/person trying to judge any other parent/person, so I'm trying to understand you.
I just don't think that smoking and heroin are easily or usefully comparable. No need to judge Peaches in any way by saying that. Just acknowledging that they are very different ball games.

'In my view...smoking just kills you slower than smack and is legal.'
OK, that's your view. I still think the two things are incredibly different. I'm not trying to judge heroin users by saying that.