to compare being a parent who smokes to a parent on heroin

[candidkate]

My friend smokes, she has a DD, she was talking about Peaches Geldof and how selfish she was for being on heroin and thus overdosing in an (alleged) suicide attempt.

I then said (nicely I promise) lets not judge other moms especially celebs who we know nothing about. Substance abuse is a huge demon and considering the fact that you have a fag attached to your hand 80% of the time I'm sure you can relate to having a demon and still loving your kids!

She then said "How can you compare" the two

I said that drug use has a much uglier face than fags but fags kill way more people every year and in proportion to heroin usage probably just as many as its users. I also pointed out that just because she smokes her death stick in a nice zara coat and some drug addicts are homeless and scruffy doesn't mean one is more acceptable as a parent than the other. Both puts your child and yourself at risk. Both are slowly killing you.

Now bare in mind I am fully aware that people will prostitute themselves and be in and out of prison for drugs. I am aware of the horrid social aspect that comes with it....but this was relevant to the argument as we were speaking about peaces geldof who i doubt pimped her kids and took them to crack houses and let them starve.

So the main focus on the argument was health. In that regards I stand by what i said ..... health wise...can a parent puffing away really judge a parent snorting a few lines / shooting up?

In my view...smoking just kills you slower than smack and is legal.

"just because she smokes her death stick in a nice zara coat and some drug addicts are homeless and scruffy doesn't mean one is more acceptable as a parent than the other. Both puts your child and yourself at risk"

"can a parent puffing away really judge a parent snorting a few lines / shooting up?"

About the 'orphaning the poor children', how many heroin addicts over 35 are there?

Tobacco takes an awful lot longer to kill you. My grandad died at 78 - so my mum was hardly orphaned at 43.

Mine wasn't a dull childhood.
but I was very well looked after, I hate the smack head label for that reason.

mums having a line before the school run who seemed perfectly normal.

Mums were snorting a line before the school run?, how do you know this, was it your Mum?

BertieBotts whats wrong with that everything in those comments were in the terms of health. When you smoke and your child inhales it it puts you anf them in danger. When you smoke and risk lung cancer it's horrid....just as shooting up and risking overdose / other health issues is.....sorry if i wasnt clear about the context of which i was speaking in it wasnt parenting it was health.

StillStayingClassySanDiego I was at a sleepover and walked in on a friends mom they lived on the most expensive piece of real estate in England and she did have and still has a very high profile job and is very celebrated.

No one was speaking about parenting abilities please can you copy and paste where I said that in my OP

Well, fogive me for reading further than the OP but it appears you have talked rather a lot about parenting abilities one way or another on this thread. These are just from the first three pages:

I mean the comment on peaches being selfish for taking her life and endangering her health because she is a mom is a double standard because smokers do the exact same thing in regards to health!

And to be fair many users of drugs actually lead pretty decent lives and are decent parents.

Trust me I've seen housewives on valium/cocaine who look pristine everyday and do the school run!

If you are addicted and have kids of course it's a horrid demon.

How can you be a good active parent when you cannot walk without a nebulizer, are wheelchair bound and cant talk because of the hole in your throat you have to breathe out of?

How can you be a good parent when you are bed bound from the chemo rounds you have to go through because of the cancer in your lungs?

I NEVER said smoking made you a bad parent.

With drug addiction comes financial difficulty, neglect etc...

I'm clearly saying that every addiction has it downfall. Every battle has an aspect which will affect your parenting.

I was offended at my friends horrid comments about someone suffering from substance abuse, as though having any type of demon/addiction/disability/shortcoming MAKES YOU A BAD PARENT

It was her who was saying that battling addiction and thus dying makes you a bad parent

I was mimicking what you all sounded like in regards to judging parents with substance abuse issues.

I said to my friend that shes a good mom who loves her kids and someone battling say a cocaine addiction may be a good mom who loves their kids thats all.

BodleianLibrarianook I'm sure you were very looked after it's a ridiculous stereotype of drug addicts that all of them are begging on the street selling sex for £5 a pop. Some people watch too much TV.

This is according to the American Lung Society

*Approximately 443,000 people die prematurely from smoking or exposure to secondhand smoke each year.i According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention 24,518 people died of alochol,ii 17,774 died of AIDS,iii 34,485 died of car accidents, 39,147 died of drug use — legal and illegal — 16,799 died of murder and 36,909 died of suicide in 2009.ii

That brings us to a total of 169,632 deaths, far less than the 430,000 that die from smoking annually.*

I'll get the UK ones in a moment it's downloading from the NHS website...

I don't have the worldwide ones

The most expensive piece of real estate in England is Kensington Palace Gardens. I'm dying to know which embassy/embassador's house you were having sleepovers at and witnesses illegal drug use.

Logically yabu, but I can see why you would respond this way to somebody else's judgemental comment.

Candidkate do you know what a percentage is?!

Comparing gross figures of deaths from something that is legally available vs something on the black market does not show which one is more dangerous.

I've not googled it, but I'll go out on a limb here and guess there are more smokers than heroin users in the UK

I was at a sleepover and walked in on a friends mom they lived on the most expensive piece of real estate in England and she did have and still has a very high profile job and is very celebrated.

Do you move in exclusive circles then?

hang on there are more people killed in car crashes than are killed trainsurfing.... We should ban cars and everyone should trainsurf to work

Yes you need deaths per 1000 users of each substance, or some similar comparison.

PlentyOfPubeGardens Please stick to the OP you cannot copy and paste my words away from the context in which they were written in response to peoples comments sorry not fair and doesnt make sense. The immobility and cancer comments was in response to someone saying there is somewhat more nobility in the health hazards of smoking than drug addiction. I was outlining that everyone's parenting is affected sometimes. As a very honest poster BodleianLibrarianoo has pointed out their stepdad was a heroin addict and put food on the table as opposed to the sober mom who smoked.

I was clearly saying in response to another poster that smoking isnt this harmless thing that lets you live a normal life ....it puts people in wheelchairs...makes them reliable on nebulizers etc etc etc ....thats all...I was simply pointing out how silly it is to disregard the consequences of smoking and the effects it can have on a family. Your mom cannot giggle with you and roll around on the grass and even speak to you with a hole in her throat and a neb on her mouth can she? And yet she still loves you....more importantly she would never ever ever ever ever be spoken about the way a drug addict admitted to hospital would be spoken about despite them both putting themselves there and both loving their kids and both plagued with addiction

Do you get it?

I was at a sleepover and walked in on a friends mom they lived on the most expensive piece of real estate in England and she did have and still has a very high profile job and is very celebrated.

Is it the Queen? Please say it's the Queen

StillStayingClassySanDiego - nope I'm working class just had a variety of friends I met this one in my local councils netball team we never knew who her mom was until she turned up at a match x

Posh house on expensive real estate, high profile and celebrated?

< taps chin and ponders>

Do people get much sympathy for illnesses that are clearly related to drink or alcohol?

PlentyOfPubeGardens Not saying names at no it's not Ken Pal Gar back I don't know about now but back in those days it was the most expensive place to live not here to out anyone just saying the OMG reaction and stereotypes being chucked around at drug addicts is feeble when all people from all walks of life battle addiction in different ways and extents. Is that not fair?

Why do I have to stick to the OP? You've said many other things since then and we are all at liberty to respond to any of your comments or to each other's. Do you understand how a forum works?

OP I think it's your ranty Facebook style of writing that's actually got people's backs up. I can imagine you posting lots of mummy martyr type shite and driving people mad on afore mentioned social network.

Soooo....long story short.

Addicts are addicts and no-one should judge them no matter whether their addiction is heroin, tobacco, alcohol, food etc.

Yes?

In that case YANBU

Except for the fact the language you use, comes across as quite judgy.

considering the fact that you have a fag attached to your hand 80% of the time

she smokes her death stick

Also, is this bit actually true? I'm really interested in the amount of people who are completely disregarding the obvious fact that smoking kills more people and orphans more children than drugs.

With regards to the orphaned children, most of the people I know who have died from lung cancer left adult offspring behind, whereas those I've known to die from hard drugs, have left much younger ones behind - therefore actually orphaning them.

I'd be interested to read any links you might have?

PlentyOfPubeGardens
Everything I've said which you just copied and pasted was in a completely different context to the OP. You are taking these comments and attaching it to the first argument i.e the OP. The comments are separate and are in the context of debates with other posters.

If a poster speaks about parenting I'm going to respond about parenting

You are taking that response and saying I was speaking about parenting in general and tha'ts not true

WorraLiberty She is a heavy smoker and even smokers call fags death sticks they are horrid things but just because I think that doesn't mean i think you are a bad parent. Why cant addiction and your love for your kids be separate? Why must peaches be a bad mom because she had an addiction?. That's the point. That's the only point