to compare being a parent who smokes to a parent on heroin

[candidkate]

My friend smokes, she has a DD, she was talking about Peaches Geldof and how selfish she was for being on heroin and thus overdosing in an (alleged) suicide attempt.

I then said (nicely I promise) lets not judge other moms especially celebs who we know nothing about. Substance abuse is a huge demon and considering the fact that you have a fag attached to your hand 80% of the time I'm sure you can relate to having a demon and still loving your kids!

She then said "How can you compare" the two

I said that drug use has a much uglier face than fags but fags kill way more people every year and in proportion to heroin usage probably just as many as its users. I also pointed out that just because she smokes her death stick in a nice zara coat and some drug addicts are homeless and scruffy doesn't mean one is more acceptable as a parent than the other. Both puts your child and yourself at risk. Both are slowly killing you.

Now bare in mind I am fully aware that people will prostitute themselves and be in and out of prison for drugs. I am aware of the horrid social aspect that comes with it....but this was relevant to the argument as we were speaking about peaces geldof who i doubt pimped her kids and took them to crack houses and let them starve.

So the main focus on the argument was health. In that regards I stand by what i said ..... health wise...can a parent puffing away really judge a parent snorting a few lines / shooting up?

In my view...smoking just kills you slower than smack and is legal.

hedgehogsdontbite I was mimicking what you all sounded like in regards to judging parents with substance abuse issues. It literally sounds that ridiculous to paint your struggle with fags more noble to an extent than a struggle with cocaine. Both are addictions both affect your health both deserve sympathy. Again stop making up an excuse to be upset I think my OP was super super clear in that we were arguing about the health effects of drugs and cigarettes.

So in your world, smokers get lots of sympathy and compassion and no judgment?

I think I agree with your basic point about not judging people who are addicts but it's hard to tell as there is so much thinly-veiled smoker bashing thrown into the mix.

From a health perspective and a health perspective only, what did you think of the David Nutt chart I posted above?

Smoking cigarettes does alter your parenting skills, just not as drastically as other drugs. You can see the effects of heroin because it's a stronger drug and typically taken as a large dose to feel high, rather than a small dose to balance you out (assuming you are already addicted and use to taking the substance). If a parent were to go without their cigarette their ability to parent would be altered, this is assuming they are addicted to nicotine.

Whenever you become addicted to anything, it effects your parents skills, usually negatively.

Alcohol, smoking, doing recreational drugs are all things that should be avoided in my opinion, especially when you have young children.

OP "AIBU"
Everybody "pretty much"
OP "No i'm not"

Why bother in AIBU? You aren't getting the response you want so now you're all shouty.

Ps. YABU.

You can't compare the two and you can't judge either. They are addictions.
Your friend should not be judging and neither should you as you don't know all the reasons or issues of those addicted.

99pokerface Read the OP again please I said in bold that I'm aware of the social differences I just didnt understand the utter and complete hypocritical disgust of my friend.

Do you drink OP?

CandiKate: I think maybe you're just having difficulty getting you thoughts all lined up - and then communicating them.

I believe you when you say what you mean to say. But - and I really mean this helpfully - I don't think it's coming across the way you mean it too. I think you probably did sound a bit harsh.

Sorry, CandiKate. I honestly am telling you that so that you know, and can decide if you want to do anything about it.

You sound as though your heart is probably in the right place -but you can't "hear" how your words sound.

I suspect you probably upset your mate, too. I'm willing to bet she'd live to not be smoking and now she feels dreadful. That's a bit sad. Even if she lacks empathy towRds heroin-addicted mothers.

Is this a wind up?
I'm an non smoker but there's no comparison! Smoking doesn't affect your ability to be a good parent but heroin deffinately does!

'I think my OP was super super clear in that we were arguing about the health effects of drugs and cigarettes.'

'We' are doing nothing. 'You' are ranting.

OP I think you're getting a battering here for stating that smoking isn't good for your health and that being a parent who smokes means that, at least some of the time, your priority isn't your child.
I totally agree with you and think that you were not BU at all to point this out to a smoking friend, esp one who you say is smoking 80% of the time (presumably around her child then?). In fact, I think if more people had the balls to speak up there would be less smokers.

I'm an atrocious parent before my first coffee of the day. Luckily DH brings it to me in bed

esp one who you say is smoking 80% of the time
Let's be honest, not even the most hardened smoker is smoking 80% of the time. Assuming she gets 8 hours sleep, that would mean she is smoking for 12 hours a day. I'm guessing it takes no more than 10 mins to smoke a cigarette, so you do the maths...

I think what OP was trying to very clunkily say was something along the lines of 'unless you are being the healthiest person you can be, you've got no right to criticise those who do risky things like take heroin'.

Which would be far less offensive that some of the things she has gone on to say on this thread, but will still be downright wrong. Unless you really stand by your earlier assertions that cancer patients/asthmatics/people who are overweight are automatically unfit parents?

'In fact, I think if more people had the balls to speak up there would be less smokers.'

You really think shaming and bullying people is an effective strategy?

And that smokers don't realise that their smoking damages their health, they are all that stupid and just need sanctimonious twats to show them the light and they will ditch their fags?

PlentyOfPubeGardens Of course they don't get more sympathy but in this thread smoking is 100% being defended and excused and for what reason I don't know because I said to my friend that shes a good mom who loves her kids and someone battling say a cocaine addiction may be a good mom who loves their kids thats all. The thread has taken a different turn because people have started to put words in my mouth and make up a post that doesnt exist - telling stories of horrid drug addict parents who don't feed their kids when i clearly clearly clearly clearly said my friend and I were debating the health aspect of addiction.

I am not a smoker, not was I brought up by smokers.

I don't think comparing smoking and heroin use makes any sense at all. Even if you are only talking about the effects on physical health. They are so different in so many pertinent ways, it's completely pointless.

Smoking used to be ubiquitous; generations of children were successfully brought up by smokers. I don't think the same can be said of heroin addicts.

I don't blame your friend for getting pissed off; it's an offensive and bizarre comparison.

I'm bloody glad you're not my friend.

'but in this thread smoking is 100% being defended and excused'

No, it isn't.

dalmatianmad Read the post you obviously havent no one was speaking about parenting abilities in fact I was saying the opposite i was saying everyone loves their kids and we shouldnt judge but support. It's in my post as clear as day.

I think the OP was referring to those who create those disabilities because of their life choices. We are all aware of the effects smoking can have. If you continue to do it then you risk putting yourself in that position don't you.
Is the overriding opinion that smoking when you have children is ok then "because it's an addiction"? To Thecatfromjapan who argues that giving up smoking is hard because it is accepted in society- don't you think that by keeping quiet and nodding when someone smokes who has children, you are adding to that acceptance?
I don't drink, I don't smoke or do drugs. I don't do these things because I want to do all I can to be fit and well for my children and to set the best example I can to them.

So, are you likely to remain friends with this woman?

I just read your last post, OP - but the 'health aspect' of heroin addiction is completely different, surely you can see that. Heroin addicts are affected on an ongoing, daily basis. Your mental state is part of your 'health', no?

Sigh, you're not interested in actually hearing how you're coming across, are you? Myself and at least one other poster have tried to explain why everyone is kicking off. I'm out.

Anyway, to the question: "am I ... Reasonable ...comparing ..."
Answer: that depends.
I can compare an orange and a football.
Am I reasonable in doing so?
Perhaps: so much depends on context, my own skills of reasoning and rationality, my aims and intentions, and so in.
If I am comparing them in order to point out areas of similarity and difference, so that a year 4 class can learn about similes: I am probably reasonable.
If I am comparing them in order to try and coerce my children into eating both for lunch: not so reasonable.

In this case, I would say your AIBU answer depends on an algorithm factoring in your intention, your content, and your execution.

Lol at smoking being 'defended and excused'!

I bloody loathe smoking, but that doesn't mean I think it's comparable in any way to heroin addiction.