To expect my boyfriend to realise his wife is a gold digger and vindictive person?

[NMC89]

Background: my boyfriend and I have been together for 2 years, having been friends for some time before that. We have a large age difference but have an incredible bond and are best friends. He has been separated from his wife for 4 years but they still live in the same house (they don't have sex). I live in London and she lives in Italy - he commutes, spending the week with me in the UK and the weekends with his children.

She has had multiple affairs openly and manipulates him unbearably (she has threatened to stop him seeing his children). He financially supports her (as well as her sister and brother). I find her behaviour disgusting, she only speaks to him when she wants money or a new car and refuses to do anything for him or the household (she is a sahm) - including disciplining the children, cooking, cleaning or food shopping. He does all these when he gets back after a week working in the UK. I try hard not to constantly be horrible about her, but it is hard to see the man I love being taken advantage of so viciously. I know they are not going to divorce (for the sake of their children) but I really can't see how this is a good alternative. He admits that she is awful and has got very angry about some of the things she has done (notably bringing her boyfriend to their family home to spend the night when his children were there), but he is incapable of doing anything about it and has aided her boyfriend's business and bought her property. Am I being unreasonable to expect him to tell her about me, stand up for himself and stop being a coward as well as getting divorce proceedings under way?

how they must be chuckling over our bourgeois notions of marriage!

I have Jimmy Nail singing in my mind:

I dont want nobody else - i love you
[s]he's lying

Sorry OP that was flippant of me. When i read this on Sunday my first thought was - if you have kids together would you then think he should be with his kids in Italy?

Not saying a man should neglect his older DC's when a younger child comes along - more so that he should encourage a big family xmas. Like some posters have said - why dont the teenagers come over to London for the odd xmas...

Sadly i think i know why

Jimmy nail

Hi,

So as promised I said I would write what happened next and I'm a girl of my word so here goes:

Having read all of the comments over the past few days, I think the one thing I took from it personally was that you guys are right about my lack of visibility in my boyfriend's life. I brought it up last night over supper and we certainly had an interesting conversation about it. I made it very clear that my intention is not for us to get married and have babies, but that my feelings regarding the wife he is separated from are based on the fact that I care deeply about him and that I think being an ostrich about the situation is helping no one, especially due to my feelings about the way she treats him. I've said that I have no burning desire to meet her or his children (I think it should be the kids' decision, not mine or his), but that I want to be a more visible part of his life as he is in mine which he has taken on board.

For all those who said I should, I showed him the MN thread and he certainly agreed with what many posters have said about me not wasting my 20s with someone who is at such a different place in their lives. However, I reminded him that it is not his decision to make as to whether I want to stay with him or not.

Not quite sure why people think I wouldn't reply because he is with me at the moment - he is currently sat right next to me - there is no reason I would hide this from him and he can't see why either as I'm an autonomous human who can make her own decisions! I don't think that more traditional views on marriage are out-dated or wrong whatsoever, I think a couple of people are deciding to event that for themselves (along with lots of other things)! In fact I have great respect for marriage, but I also acknowledge that sometimes it just isn't the right thing and some people just aren't meant to be together. My only reason for not revisiting has nothing to do with him, but more to do with the fact that very few posters actually answered my question and instead just made a judgement on the relationship I am actually really happy in (before you respond, please note that my initial post was nothing to do with my unhappiness, but to with how to speak to someone you care about when you think they are being manipulated).

Anyway, it's sleep time for me. Night.

You showed him the thread?

How did he react to your gold digger/vindictiveness comments?

Yes, he read the first few pages. Tbh I had expected him to be angry with me, but he wasn't at all which was nice! He said that he knew this was how I felt and that he understood that it was difficult for me but that the reason he is in this situation is because he is scared to hurt his kids and therefore it is easier to ignore the things she has done. I guess only time will tell really...

right. So now you have told him, and showed him this thread. what happened when you told him he was being taken for a fool by his ex, maybe, wife?

You can certainly be an person in your own right. but has he answered you original questions? Why are you a secret? Why is he a coward? Why is he in thrall to a woman that makes him so unhappy, who flaunts her lovers in front of their children? Though they are separated for four years?

I have never been married. I have a lovely son. I am not in any way a fan of miserable marriages at the expense of personal happiness.

But oh dear.

He is fucking a girl just a couple of years older than his children.

Do you not get it?

You think he is being manipulated? Oh.

why are the feelings of his ickle bubbas ( just a couple of years younger than you) be so more important than yours? You think you are an adult and they are children?

You are all children. He is just fucking you.

Oh my dear. I am so worried for you. He has hijacked your emerging sexuality and bound it to his own situation. Why do you have to be the one to comprimise? Why are you not the pride of his life, to be flaunted, even discretely, in his personal environment? Why are you not the one thing he has managed to do right, to be paraded, guarded, looked after, rejoiced in?

You should be at the centre of your lover's life. not on the periphery.

If they have no marriage, and have been apart for four years.

Then your place is at his side, as his partner. He should be rejoicing at his luck in having you, celebrating it with the world, working through the issues arising with his children.

Not hiding you away as a bit on the side in London.

Ask him.

You, my love, are totally fucking delusional and he is laughing at you. He does not love you, not even remotely. You are a bit on the side, his wife is far more important. If he wanted to be with you full time he would be, he is not because you are nothing more than a bit of entertainment when he is at work. This thread won't have unnerved him in the slightest, he will have seen how you defend him when everyone is stating the fucking obvious and will be confident that you won't threaten his real relationship so he can keep taking you for the fool that you are.

You are going to seriously regret wasting your life on this loser when you finally grow up.

When the day comes and you wake up (and for your sake I hope its sooner rather than another few years down the line) I hope you can think back to this thread.

If he is sitting next to you and reading the thread, perhaps this genuine soul might be up for answering a few questions that MNers have in their general concern for the op?

1. Why don't you speak Italian, even though your wife and children do?
2. Why don't you invite your children over and introduce your GF as a close friend?
3. If you will never divorce your wife, why do you have a girlfriend?
4. If you are so worried about the effect your ruined marriage has on your children, why do you allow your wife to flaunt her boyfriend I appropriately in the family home?
5. If your wife's behaviour is inappropriate and uncaring/abusive to your children why do you abandon them to her every Sunday evening?

Is that his words " taken on board" re your visibility in his life?

He's either not going to do anything about it and string you along or he will dump you as you are getting demanding. Are you attending his work Christmas do? And has he met your dad?

What are you doing with this man? You seem to be using him for sex yourself, because you don't have a relationship with him where you share occasions like weekends, Christmas, families...

A coupe of nice dinners a deux and sex for two years? Really? Perhaps you need to look at why you are happy with this relationship going nowhere. Its obvious why he likes it:)

I made it very clear that my intention is not for us to get married and have babies

Lawd, he must have been smiling - when a married man's plaything reiterates that she has no expectations, then he's vindicated in living up (or down, in this case) to the low standards she applies to herself

I want to be a more visible part of his life as he is in mine which he has taken on board

Why want visibility if you're never going to be his wife or the mother of his children? Someone else will fill the role you..umm.. "dont want", in time to come. Why would he even bother to make you more visible in his life, when for 2 years you've gone along with being Miss Invisible when most women wouldve run a mile by now, taking their dignity with them?

I'm an autonomous human who can make her own decisions

Well get on with making them then - rather than landing in here every so often complaining because you arent getting the answers YOU want. A lot of effort for a man you allegedly dont want marriage or babies with, isnt it? To the extent of, showing him this thread?! Dont let MNetters be the voice that you're afraid to be - you want more from this man and you're afraid to ask for it.

In fact, you're pretty easily pleased arent you? Don't you cringe for yourself? I know many other posters feel sorry for you, but, you don't deserve sympathy. You're spoilt and vindictive - jumping up & down as MNetters won't say what you want them to. & you're bitching to a man about his wife, just because he wont offer you the sun moon & stars that you're shit scared of asking for anyway, but are hiding behind your oh so clever reply that means sweet f.a. really. As said, you're going to a lot of effort for a man you claim you dont want anything from. If you didnt want anything, your soul wouldnt be grieving over his wife - you'd just get on with being with him as you are.

It all serves you right . Do good to get good in life, as they say. & if you don't.....

OP

I have read all your posts and some but not all of the replies.

OK if I was living in London during the week and commuting to Italy, where I owned a house, at the weekend I would not be cooking and cleaning, I would be paying someone to do it.

Think about it, this man is not poor, would you really fly home and start cleaning? Especially if the reason you are going home is your children, wouldn't you be spending time with them?

I bet the two of you never argue do you? Never fall out, never have cross words, not even when you were showing him this fred.

That's not normal, that is a big red flag. Normal couples have disagreements, they don't get on all the time.

He is conning you.

But his wife speaks English and you have her e-mail address. Do you have a phone number? An address? Let her know you exist. It will bring things to a head one way or another.

Oh and make sure any reply you get to your midweek e-mail is actually sent from Italy.

He must love the fact you're being so cool and so reasonable and I know you think you're being really grown up and mature about it all. But this isn't a grown up relationship. You're fuck buddies and you've been sold the myth that this is what young independent, enlightened, modern young women do. It's a crock of shit. You get what you settle for in life. There are some great men out there who will put you at the centre of their lives and build a social life, economic life and family life with you.

You are a lovely distraction to this man.

He knows the gig is up. It won't be long now but I'll bet he's thinking how to extricate himself from this with minimum fall out. I expect the reason will be something to do with the wife (ill) or kids (sad/emotional issues). Though he might have to be a bit more creative now if he's reading this thread.

maybe his London job will 'end' and he'll get a job elsewhere.
Would you move cities/countries with him OP?

I really felt sorry for you OP until your last post revealed you clearly know you're the other woman.

Play with fire and all that.

And stop being so transparent! Any normal BF would be wondering why you posted relationship details without taking to them first. They wouldn't think it was nothing or perfectly fine. The reason why he's fine with it is because

1. He doesn't care
2. None of this true
3. Forewarned is forearmed and he now gets to know everything so he can adjust behaviour accordingly
4. Has a massive ego

Oops I apologise, the last post I read from you wasn't the last post!

I don't know how you can have your head so deep in the sand. Either you do, or you know deep down you're the OW but don't want that label and would rather be the gullible victim.

Since you asked about the likely effect on his teenage children, this is what I have seen from teenagers in our own circle:

an open, well managed divorce is something they tend to cope with very well- it does very little, if any damage

otoh deceit, lies, cheating, finding out that a parent was not what you took him for does untold damage

cheating parents invariably get found out

and in none of the cases I can remember had the parent (read: father) had any idea how badly his deceit would damage his susbsequent relationship with his child(ren)

your father is somebody you rely on to give you values; if he turns out to be a liar, then you start doubting those values, you start doubting that there are values in life

I know people who have gone on to have life-long trust issues because they found out that the parent they believed was upright and sincere was in effect a lying cheat, people who have never been able to trust other people because their parent lied to them, directly or implicitly.

You say you don't want to hurt his children. But this is what you are conniving at. Far, far worse than if he told them openly that he is leaving their mum, or spent Christmas elsewhere.