Who is being unreasonable here? Wedding drama.

[manicinsomniac]

Ok, trying to keep the background simple and not too specific:

A while ago friend A quit her job, very suddenly, because she said she was being bullied by some of our colleagues.

Friend B is getting married. Friend A is the maid of honour.

Friend B has invited the 'bullying' colleagues to the wedding (partly out of politics but also because they are friendly with each other)

Right, so, last night friend B phoned me crying because friend A is now refusing to come to the wedding if the bullies come. She says it will make her physically sick to see them.

My response was 'for God's sake she's 40 not 10!' and I have more or less told friend A that to her face, in slightly less harsh terms.

Friend B asked me to try and talk friend A round and let her know how upset she was. My take on it was that if A is really B's best friend then she will appreciate that it is B's day, she can invite who she likes and that A will have to deal with it and socialise in an appropriate, polite, adult fashion.

A is now 'not speaking' to me I may have accidentally used the words selfish and childish . And doesn't appear any closer to giving in.

Who do you think is being unreasonable? Is Friend A pathetic? Is Friend B a bridezilla? Am I taking B's side unfairly and not appreciating A's POV?

Fair point tuppence but oringinally OP said B had invited the colleagues partly out of politics and partly because she was friendly with them, that is an entirly different thig to being actual frineds (although they all seem to have become closer as the thread has gone on!).

I'm not having any problems with the 'friendship' dynamics here riverboat. It sounds a lot like bullying to me.

But if you don't think it is, that's okay.

Do you think it would be best if the OP told the bride to dry her eyes and that she couldn't get involved in a spat but that she hoped she'd have a happy day?

Not read thread [lazy]

Friend B can invite who she likes

Friend A can decline to go (her choice and if she felt victimised enough to quit her job then her decision should be respected not labelled pathetic)

The only one who is 'pathetic' is you for getting involved at all and stirring it up

limited, to me it's not cut and dry one way or the other from this thread. I'm not saying that Friend A hasn't been bullied, just that it's plausible (not even saying probable) that she hasn't been. Since most people on this thread have been talking about a scenario where Friend A had definitely been bullied and OP and Friend B were being blind/insensitive to it, I was thinking out loud about the possibility of a different scenario.

Gaping hopes?

*holes

So don't you think the best thing for OP to do is to keep out of the whole mess and turn up on the day with a card and a toaster rather than trawling for opinions about Friend A's unreasonable behaviour riverboat?

A friend of mine was in a similar situation - asked to be bridesmaid by someone she considered her best friend, then found that her abusive, lowlife XP was also invited, despite XP having made threats against her new DP. (There was no contact between friend and XP for about 6 months before she met new DP, so not even any wrong and twisted justification for XP's behaviour.)

Friend offered to leave after the meal so that XP could go to the evening. Bride refused to compromise. Friend didn't go. Their friendship may never recover.

Even if the bullies were uninvited, your phone call OP and the fact the bullies were ever invited, would have overshadowed and turned the whole event sour for me if I was A.

So nothing to sort out now, just for B to graciously accept that A won't be attending.

I feel really sorry for A and think she is better off without the pair of you.

I don't think I know how to be friends with women! These women are all people I'd consider good friends but it's very clear to me why my best friends are all men!

this always rings alarm bells for me

I think you and B should leave A in peace

You and Friend B are B vvv U and as 99% of posters have said, Friend A is better off without you both.

As limitedperiodonly has very eloquently put it, the people who sit by and 'avoid confrontation' are as destructive as the bullies themselves.

Think you should email a link to this thread to both Friend A and Friend B and let them see this for themselves.

Wow, just wow. I didn't think you could get worse but to believe that A feels bullied and yet only worry about the bride's 'special day', not to mention telling her that she's selfish And you're teachers?! Bloody hell, I can only pray that a pupil never needs help with a difficult situation because you're clearly not mature enough to help. I hope she tells you all to fuck off, because to quit her job and MOH duties is extreme. She clearly feels bullied, yet her alleged best friend and you only care about her wedding duties.

Wow.

Well put Muffin!

Holy cow.

You sound horrible. Just horrible toxic bullies. You, B and the rest of you.

I hope neither of you work at my childrens primary school.

Poor A.

How can you tell a person who has been bullied out of her workplace that she is behaving childish and selfish and ruining her best friends special day by her bowing out of the wedding?

I am speechless.

My sister has not worked for 10 years, since she was bullied out of her job. She was pretty senior, though. But she has suffered serious mental health problems, agoraphobia and depression since she had to leave her job. All her confidence just wiped out by hyenas, such as yourself, B and the jolly good fellows.

I wish friend A could read this thread! Hope shes a MNs

Steady on.

I think the OP has been insensitive and the friendship itself is toxic but I don't think she deserves to be called a bully.

She did what she was asked and contacted a mutual friend to persuade her not to upset the bride. She did it quite abruptly and without any of insight into what that friend might have been through but she did not set out to do A any damage.

I honestly believe that A is better off without this friendship because the bride and the OP cannot support her in putting her life back together if they don't accept that she was bullied. I don't believe they intend to make A unhappy but they are not the sort of friends such a fragile person needs right now.

I feel for A because I guess she is agonising over how to solve this right now.

I hope the bride is a mature enough person to contact her and let her off the hook with no hard feelings. To do anything else could be very destructive and may end up spoiling the whole wedding which wouldn't help anyone.

I do have to wonder how well bullying amongst the children is dealt with in that school if the staff have so little understanding of it.

I think usually everyone puts any issues aside when theres a wedding but i expect there must be some exceptions if the issues are extreemly serious.

I work in a school. Over the years, I have seen several people, teachers and others, who have been hounded out of their jobs by bullies. And almost every time, if you had asked, other members of staff would have said the same as you - that the 'bullies' were delightful people, they didn't mean it, etc etc. Yet, these delightful people managed to see off a number of colleagues and several of those did what Friend A has done, chosen to leave without a new job to go to. None of them deserved that. Some of the bullies have got their come-uppance, but not all of them.

Unless you have experienced the devastation of being on the receiving end of bullying, you have no right AT ALL, to decide that her decision is childish and selfish. Or to tell her that she will not be ill. How do you know that? She felt strongly enough to walk away from her job - I wouldn't mind betting that in fact, the stress caused by the thought of even being in the same room as these people, could easily make her ill. And how patronising to be reminding her that 'you are all sensible adults and life is just sometimes like that...' Clearly, in her mind, these people are not sensible adults, they are bullies. Your comment about life being like that, is basically telling her that whatever they did, or whatever she believes they did to her, doesn't matter at all when compared to B's wedding. because that one day is of course so much more important than all the days A felt awful at the hands of these 'delightful ' people. To reduce her valid reasons for no attending to 'friendship politics', is to say that her feelings are worthless which of course, is what the bullies did to her.

So well done you, you have probably managed to make her feel even more worthless than she was already feeling. In fact, your actions and those of B, by asking you to 'deal' with this, have basically just been yet more bullying.

I'm still struggling to understand how these women can be such wonderful people when the bride is worried about her own life being made a misery at work if she doesn't invite them.

And surely these lovely, wonderful women would completely understand why the bride might want/need to change her mind about inviting them? Or would they rather the bride not have her first choice of maid of honour, just so that they could attend?

When the wedding is over, is B seriously still expecting A to continue with the friendship?

limitedperiod ? no, it?s not the fault the fault of women that I don?t know how to relate to them properly. It?s just me, I don?t get complex social cues etc. And I wouldn?t even attempt to deal with anything other than a total black and white case of bullying at school because I can?t tell when children are lying. I really can?t work it out. My colleagues know that and I pass the children on to head of year.

JamieandOscar ? I?ve experienced childhood bullying. But no, I don?t get adult bullying. I don?t understand how or why it can happen.

Goldmandra ? It?s an incredibly toxic friendship. A and B are always refusing to speak to each other about something and I never quite understand and always say the wrong thing.

GlassofRose ? we kind of do have to be friends because we have almost no ?out of work? to see other friends in. We work in a boarding school and pretty much live there. I mean, we have our own houses but they?re all very local to the school and we?re in school most of the time.

Orange ? she left over a year ago, until yesterday I assumed it was all ancient history.

SDGT ? if you had come to me as a suicidal 14 year old I would have referred you to the school nurse asap. I teach, I?m no counsellor and don?t know how to be. I can accept that I?ve done the wrong thing but I would never have thought so before this thread. I?m definitely surprised by it. And, as for which friendship is more important ? well, for me it?s my work friends because I see them more. For friend B I imagine it?s A as she?s not especially good friends with the other colleagues.

Shesback ? I haven?t been accused of bullying in the past?! Where did I say that? I?ve never been accused of any kind of bullying except here in this thread. And why does it make me a nasty person because I haven?t had a long term relationship with anyone? I just find it very difficult to let people get to know me, that?s all. I had a psychiatrist once who told me that I ?make friends with everyone so that I don?t really have to make friends with anyone?. Kind of true I think. I?m a bit socially clueless but I don?t think I?m nasty.

riverboat this: ?I have also encountered people who are over-sensitive and who never leave schoolgirl "friendship politics" behind. It's plausible that Friend A, if she was already thinking about leaving work as it's not neccessary for her and she is happier not working, could have made a mountain out of a molehill, but has got so worked up she is now unable or unwilling to move past it thus causing wedding upset.? is exactly what I think the situation is.

hzgreen ? I am friends with the accused colleagues, just as much as I am with A and B. B is not really friends with them, they are just on friendly working terms. Sorry for any confusion. Nobody has grown closer. Me = friends with all, close to none. B = best friends with A, not friends with others.

limitedperiod ? maybe that would be best but I?m glad I did ?trawl for opinions? because I never expected this response at all, I have totally new angles to look at it from

bialystock ? is it really a bad thing to avoid confrontation? I seem to have made a pretty big mess of my first attempt at confronting! I think I?ll go back to avoiding it like the plague!!

quintessential ? don?t worry, we don?t work in a primary school. And you are assuming that she was bullied out of the workplace whereas, knowing the situation and the people involved, it is almost certain that she overreacted and chose to leave the workplace which makes it very different.

Goldmandra ? A has put her life back together and she isn?t unhappy any more. And I?m 99% sure that B will uninvited our colleagues in order to keep A as MOH. Bullying is dealt with by our pastoral team who are good at it.

coppertop ? B isn't frightened of them making her life a misery, she's frightened of hurting their feelings and making work awkward as all other staff are invited and leaving them out would be very obvious. B could tell out colleagues the truth about why she can?t invite them. But I don?t think she?d want them to feel badly towards A. They were pretty upset and frustrated about her leaving and them being interviewed because they feel they did nothing to deserve it. They?re fine now but I think this would stir it up again. And I think A is expecting B to uninvite them (which I think she will) so yes, their friendship will continue as before if B does that. If she doesn?t then no, I don?t think the friendship will continue.

To be honest, after B has used you (better friends with the bullies, thinks A is 'overreacting', told her she is being selfish and childish) as her bulldog and set you on A to whip her into line - well, even if the bullies are uninvited, I'd be super fucking surprised if she wants to go to the poxy wedding. I wouldn't. I'd tell you all to piss off, you all sound as bad as each other.

Manic I think you've been put in a difficult situation, one that wasn't yours to sort out. I think you need to say you've tried to sort it but it's up to the bride to do what she thinks is best now. You really are going to end up the bad guy in a situation that isn't yours to sort. It's not your wedding.

I've been bullied at work, luckily it was a contract so I left, but it was really awful whilst it was happening. But, I did understand why the others didn't say anything. She didn't just bully me, I was one of many who'd left because of her.

I think as you have seen there are always two sides to every situation. But you don't have to be the one to sort it out

Manicinsomniac - I wasn't clear - I was asking you how you would have dealt with me if I had reported the bullying to you - would you have told me the same sort of thing that you have told your friend? Would you have believed me, or would you have said you had seen no evidence of the bullying with your own eyes, so it couldn't be happening?

Fair comment, manicinsomniac. You've taken a lot on board here and managed to pass on reacting to the unpleasantness.

I guess knowing that you are all living together too makes it easier to understand the intensity of the relationships.

"it is almost certain that she overreacted and chose to leave the workplace which makes it very different."

This and the toxic nature of the friendship make me want to tell A to turn her back on the school and everyone there for her own good. However it doesn't sound like she's likely to walk away any time soon.

I hope those of you who do go to the wedding manage to put this all to the backs of your minds and enjoy the day.

I think the two situations are a little hard to compare. To tell a child you haven't seen anybody bullying them so they aren't it ridiculous. I am not friends with any of my pupils, I don't interact with them outside of my lessons and clubs and am with the majority of them for maybe 5-10% of their school day at best. If I had seen the bullying it would actually be more surprising than if I hadn't. Within a group of adult friends who spend almost all their time as the only adult in a group of kids or else with multiple other colleagues, none of whom ever witnessed anything, it's very different.

But, to answer your question, I would have written down what you said, filled in the relevant forms and passed them on to the pastoral care team. I wouldn't automatically disbelieve you, of course I wouldn't. But I would try to investigate all sides and talk to all parties.