Who is being unreasonable here? Wedding drama.

[manicinsomniac]

Ok, trying to keep the background simple and not too specific:

A while ago friend A quit her job, very suddenly, because she said she was being bullied by some of our colleagues.

Friend B is getting married. Friend A is the maid of honour.

Friend B has invited the 'bullying' colleagues to the wedding (partly out of politics but also because they are friendly with each other)

Right, so, last night friend B phoned me crying because friend A is now refusing to come to the wedding if the bullies come. She says it will make her physically sick to see them.

My response was 'for God's sake she's 40 not 10!' and I have more or less told friend A that to her face, in slightly less harsh terms.

Friend B asked me to try and talk friend A round and let her know how upset she was. My take on it was that if A is really B's best friend then she will appreciate that it is B's day, she can invite who she likes and that A will have to deal with it and socialise in an appropriate, polite, adult fashion.

A is now 'not speaking' to me I may have accidentally used the words selfish and childish . And doesn't appear any closer to giving in.

Who do you think is being unreasonable? Is Friend A pathetic? Is Friend B a bridezilla? Am I taking B's side unfairly and not appreciating A's POV?

If the bride really doesn't know whether to believe that the bullying happened that means the she doesn't trust A to tell her the truth.

How do you end up asking someone you don't trust to be your Maid of Honour?

Knowing the history why would you invite the alleged bullies to the wedding? I don't think it is obligatory to invite your work colleagues to your wedding is it? Do people really so upset not to be invited to a colleague's wedding that there is an 'atmosphere' in the office about it?

I think the bride just needs to accept that if she isn't prepared to accept her friend's word she won't have her as her Maid of Honour. Maybe the friendship is sufficiently valuable to her that she is willing to accept A's decision with good grace and move on. If she isn't willing to do that A is probably better off if the friendship ends anyway.

Maybe she's being a bit Bridezilla and imagining that everybody will put their feelings to one side, no matter how awful they are, for her because it is her special day.

Getting married doesn't entitle you to put people in this position.

FWIW I think you asking her just to 'not talk to them' was rather insensitive. I imagine there were many, many occasions when she would have given anything to be allowed to do just that in your workplace. Perhaps if you had offered to support her throughout the day and make sure she wasn't ever put in the position of needing to speak to them she might have been able to change her mind.

Oh, and you also have to be able to withstand the company getting really vicious when you won't back down and telling you they're going to destroy you and your lovely little family with legal fees.

"It won't make you ill and nobody will get into a fight"

Actually, if A was badly bullied it might make her ill, and fights are probably not what she fears - more the snarky muttered comments that are for her ears only...

I was bullied for most of my school life (I truly must just have had a target painted on my head). It made me depressed, start to self harm, and fearful for my safety. Now, I refuse to return to my entire hometown other than to visit family (at their houses), and I do not go into the centre, because I might meet the people who made my life hell.

I once agreed to go to a wedding where some people from my school would be present. This joyfully ended with a family member of mine being threatened with violence, us all leaving early, and the usual idiots saying "but I'm sure he didn't mean it like that" .

Bullying does happen, and just because you like your friends does not mean that when they are working together, in a position of power over someone else, that they are all sweetness and light.

B is not being A's friend, and your approach to her shows that you are not her friend either. Forcing people who have been bullied into close proximity with the bullies is just wrong, and trying to blackmail A into attending shows a complete lack of concern for her wellbeing.

I feel so so awful for this poor woman now I've seen what you said to her. To have this put upon her as if she is just being petty and letting the bride down! What you said to her is terrible!

She is probably afraid of these people. It isn't childish or selfish to have strong feelings about people who made your life so bad you left your job. :(

Really I'm so upset for her that you said those things. How could you? Awful.

When there's an atmosphere (as there will be if B has to uninvite the colleagues) work is a miserable place and we need to be there 60 plus hours a week.

So these women aren't total self-effacing angels after all then?

Still, that doesn't matter to be honest. I am not having a go, I see it's a difficult situation, but I am another who thinks it's sad that you don't believe A, and when I say "believe" I mean believe how much whatever happened has affected her. Who are you to say "It won't make you ill"? Maybe it would!

(Sorry if I posted that a few times, I can't tell, my phone is going screwy.)

I know some of the others made you feel awful last year but there will be loads of people there, can't you just not talk to them? I know _ isn't going to put you on the same table anyway.

I don't want to upset you but you've been pretty straight with me in the past (and rightly so, sometimes it's necessary!) and, if you think about it, I think you'll realise this decision is unfair and actually a bit childish and selfish. It's one day. It won't make you ill and nobody will get into a fight - because you are all sensible adults who know how to act in social situations. It might be a bit uncomfortable but it won't last and sometimes life is just like that.

This totally and utterly belittles what A went through. At the end you dismiss her with 'life is just like that'. WOW.

I don't think it is obligatory to invite your work colleagues to your wedding is it?

goldmandra I've worked in places where that kind of thing is obligatory. Bullying culture is endemic in many organsations. So Friend B may well be being bullied herself. What's really sick is that it's seen as some kind of test of loyalty to the organisation.

I feel sorry for anyone in that position and the only solution if you don't want to be used is to plan an escape route to a better workplace.

Meanwhile you try to resist without drawing fire.

You don't do what the bride has done and ring one of your friends in tears to get her to put pressure on the victim.

And if someone does pull that trick on you, you say: 'Sorry Bride, but I don't want to get involved.'

I'm sure those words have passed OP's lips many times before.

Goldmandra - neither I nor B mistrust or think A is lying. She thinks our colleagues think she is worthless and treated her in that way. There is not questiono fher lying she believes it. But, as I said earlier, she was having a bit of a personal crisis at the time anyway and believed those things of herself. We don't work in an office, we are teachers. A was B's TA and wouldn't have been directly alone with any other colleagues. The chances that these other colleagues thought or said anything about her at all are very very small. I'll admit not impossible but I have no reason whatsoever to think they did anything wrong at all.

ZiaMaria - I should have explained the hitting thing. That is exactly what she thinks will happen. She told B that her husband wouldn't be able to refrain from hitting the colleagues if they came. My note was a reminder to myself to reassure that I couldn't imagine anything less likely. Her husband is incredibly peaceable and most of the colleagues concerned are women.

I don't think I know how to be friends with women! These women are all people I'd consider good friends but it's very clear to me why my best friends are all men!

I truly must just have had a target painted on my head

zia you've managed to make me laugh.

I used to think I was walking around with a 'kick me' sign on my back.

neither I nor B mistrust or think A is lying
I have no reason whatsoever to think they did anything wrong at all

#mind explodes with all the contradictions#

If she's not lying, clearly they DID do something wrong. You just don't believe her. Do you?

btw zia I wouldn't dream of making light of what you went through. But sometimes a hollow laugh is the only response.

Hope you can be happy now.

It's not a contradiction. I don't think they did anything. I believe that she believes they did.

"B is still friends with the others because she has to be"

Actually, no she doesn´t.

She has to get on with them in the workplace.

If she has invited them to her weding then I suggest that she likes them & sees them as friends.

Or am I odd?

I only invited friends to my wedding-not people I worked with-unless they were also friends!

look, maybe the bullying was all a figment of her imagination. But it caused her very real distress, which implies she is feeling fragile. At those moments, whether you are in the right or not, you expect friends to support you, not dismiss your feelings.
You sound quite determined to break her down, down to even dismissing what she says her OWN husband may do, ffs. You are ordering her to come to the wedding and be humiliated.

I believe that she believes they did.

Ok, fine. So don't suddenly now dismiss her feelings by trying to tell her that it'll "just be a bit uncomfortable" or similar. In her head (at the very least) that will not be the case.

Oh look!

A is down.

Let's kick her.

I believe that she believes they did

What a shitty passive aggressive cop out. I think she's better off without the pair of you. Go nail your colours to the bullies mast and feel really proud of yourself.

"I believe that she believes they did."

So why try to get her to go to the wedding?

Christ I can´t believe that B was crying to you about it.

She´ll still be marrying the man she wants to!

I don't think I know how to be friends with women! These women are all people I'd consider good friends but it's very clear to me why my best friends are all men!

So it's the fault of women is it?

You get worse with every post OP.

And btw teaching is one of the professions where bullying is a big problem - small workforce, one figurehead and a heavy reliance on building personal relationships in order to succeed or survive.

I'm interested to know how you deal with allegations of bullying from your pupils manicinsomniac

The teachers at our school have very intertwined lives so I can understand the difficult position you're all in.

I do however feel strongly that A should not be coerced into attending or made to feel guilty of ruining the day if she doesn't.

Shit there's no solution to this is there?!!!!

And incidentally, oh good, the old "women are so complicated with their silly politics about triflng matters like workplace bullying and men are nice and simple" thing, because that always does everybody tons of favours.