Who is being unreasonable here? Wedding drama.

[manicinsomniac]

Ok, trying to keep the background simple and not too specific:

A while ago friend A quit her job, very suddenly, because she said she was being bullied by some of our colleagues.

Friend B is getting married. Friend A is the maid of honour.

Friend B has invited the 'bullying' colleagues to the wedding (partly out of politics but also because they are friendly with each other)

Right, so, last night friend B phoned me crying because friend A is now refusing to come to the wedding if the bullies come. She says it will make her physically sick to see them.

My response was 'for God's sake she's 40 not 10!' and I have more or less told friend A that to her face, in slightly less harsh terms.

Friend B asked me to try and talk friend A round and let her know how upset she was. My take on it was that if A is really B's best friend then she will appreciate that it is B's day, she can invite who she likes and that A will have to deal with it and socialise in an appropriate, polite, adult fashion.

A is now 'not speaking' to me I may have accidentally used the words selfish and childish . And doesn't appear any closer to giving in.

Who do you think is being unreasonable? Is Friend A pathetic? Is Friend B a bridezilla? Am I taking B's side unfairly and not appreciating A's POV?

Well as the saying goes, with friends like B-and the OP-who needs enemies??!!

My best friend turned down a photography job when she realised it was for a friend of the woman I had been dumped for!

If you honestly called friend A childish and selfish then I am sickened. For years I would have struggled to be in the same room as those who bullied me at school, and even now, aged 47, I am still fighting the depression and poor self esteem they caused. If someone I thought was my friend talked to me as you seem to have talked to your friend, manicinsomniac, that would have devastated me, and felt like an utter betrayal. I doubt any friendship would have survived that hurt.

You should apologise to Friend A for being so heartless towards her.

Thing about weddings is that the bride has the right to invite who she likes, but her invited guests also have the right to decline.

I was bullied in the workplace. I left seven years ago after a complete nervous breakdown. I was out shopping s whole ago and thought insaw my ex boss, the bully, and I started SHAKING. my palms went sweaty. It wasn't even her, but just thinking it was provoked the most awful fear. No way would I go to an all day social event where she'd also be a guest. I'd rather go on a day trip to the Gaza Strip.

My friend tried to commit suicide due to workplace bullying. I would never expect her to be in the same room as the person responsible.

Friend A was BU for inviting the bullies, and is even more U for asking you to get involved.

Am I completely lacking in feeling for sometimes getting the urge to yell 'It's only a fucking wedding!' when reading some threads on MN? I can't believe the pain and trouble they can cause.

I was bullied. It was well over a decade ago and you couldn't pay me to be in the same room with them. I'm sure most of them are perfectly decent people now and would be polite but that's not the point. I unexpectedly saw a picture of one of them on a mutual acquaintance's Facebook page a while ago and had a panic attack.

You're underestimating the impact of bullying at best and acting like your friend is lying at worst. I appreciate you're stuck in the middle but either admit you don't believe her or be properly sympathetic if you're going to express an opinion on the matter. Bullying is insidious. These colleagues of yours may well be mostly decent people, it may have started as a joke or an only minorly unkind remark that turned into a bandwagon of bullying behaviour which the colleagues did not even realise was having such a disastrous impact. I don't say that to exonerate them because bullying is inexcusable but I do believe that most people do not wake up in the morning thinking 'oooh, I'm going to make Bob from marketing's life hell today' - yet these people who go to work with mostly good intentions may end up doing so and it'd only stop if an outsider called them on it, or poor Bob will continue to suffer.

Quenelle - I was suicidal when I was 14, due to the bullying.

Oh no, I got my 'friends' the wrong way round. Friend B is being unreasonable, not A. I would never have asked my friend who was bullied to be in the same room as her bully for the sake of a wedding.

I'm so sorry

Mrs HelsBels - B is still friends with the others because she has to be. They work together day in, day out. She also has no real reason to believe that they did anything wrong. We don't know for sure that they didn't but you can't go round thinking badly of someone for something they have been found to be inocent of.

SDGT - I don't know if I called her selfish and childish or not tbh. I think I called the decision selfish and childish. Not sure if they two things are the same. I'm 99.9% sure neither A nor B have ever even heard of this website and I haven't been that discreet anyway so I'll risk a vague repost of what I said to A.

I wrote it down before phoning because I was so scared (may not sound like it but I don't do confrontation, this is the first time I have ever called anyone on anything, no matter how bad.) I did it because I was so angry and upset for B and she asked me to. So I'm gutted to hear from an overwhelming majority that it was probably the wrong thing to do! From my notes, it will have been a bit like this anyway:

"I think you should know how devestated is about your decision not to come to her wedding. It's actually going to spoil what should be one of the best days of her life if her best friend doesn't go.

It's and 's day. You know how much they've been through and they have to be able to invite or not invite anyone they like without any of the guests making things harder by friendship politics. I know you probably think you're solving the problem by saying you won't go but that doesn't help because now, as well as not having you there, ___ also feels guilty about her own guest list which is totally wrong.

I know some of the others made you feel awful last year but there will be loads of people there, can't you just not talk to them? I know _ isn't going to put you on the same table anyway.

I don't want to upset you but you've been pretty straight with me in the past (and rightly so, sometimes it's necessary!) and, if you think about it, I think you'll realise this decision is unfair and actually a bit childish and selfish. It's one day. It won't make you ill and nobody will get into a fight - because you are all sensible adults who know how to act in social situations. It might be a bit uncomfortable but it won't last and sometimes life is just like that.

I really hope you'll change your mind because _ deserves for you to be there. Sorry if this sounds harsh but I needed to at least try."

I don't think I said all of it. Most of it though.

friend b was insensitive to invite the bullies of a especially wanting A to have a prominent role.

the only way I can see her sorting it out with everyone is to feign a mistake on the invites and say the bullies were only meant to be invited to the evening do so A can be at the ceremony and wedding breakfast - A can decide to leave before the bullies get there or see how she feels when they do.

I would suggest a work hen do and a proper rl friends hen do.

I think the thing people are forgetting here is I'm assuming that if there was an investigation and the people accused of bullying still have a job then there is no proof that anything happened.

I'm seeing this from the other side a bit as I was falsely accused of bullying when I was at school and it was beyond awful as no one believed me when I said I hadn't done anything. Constantly having people doubt you on the say so of one person is horrid, especially when there is no way for you to prove you are innocent. It only ended for me when the girl accused me of something during a lunchtime where I had been with a teacher the whole time so they knew it couldn't be true. They started digging a bit deeper then and realised that some of the things the other girl said didn't add up. The thing is even though everyone then knew I couldn't have done what she said she never stopped saying it was me, as far as my knowledge goes anyway. I'm guessing she honestly believed I was bullying her as I can't see why she would keep up a pretence after it was proven I wasn't.

In this case I think that A obviously believes she was bullied but I honestly can't see anything said in the OP that proves one way or the other that she was. I think if I was B I probably wouldn't have invited the people she accused if A was my best friend, even if I wasn't certain what was true as I would care more about my BF being there. That isn't the case here though, if invites have already gone out then taking them back is going to make work beyond awful for B, cost her some friends and possibly hurt people who potentially haven't done anything wrong. On the other hand A is going to be really hurt that her BF doesn't believe her or doesn't prioritise her over the other people. I think if I was in B's position now I would just accept that A wasn't going to come, I wouldn't pressure her about it or anything but wouldn't take back the invites to the work friends. That would depend on just how close to them I was though I guess. B is now in the crap position of either damaging her relationship with A or damaging her relationship with her work mates, its up to her which one she deems as more important. She can't force A to come if she really doesn't want to though, if she was bullied that would be horrific for her, and B really needs to back of there, it's either A or the others, not both.

To be honest if the bride was such a great friend to A then she should have known that A would not be able to come to a wedding with people who had bullied her out of a job. Surely she would have been a
confidant to B during the bullying? I dont think B is as good as a friend as what you are saying.

Seriously work bullying is horrible, and having so called friends not believing her must be devestating.

I think you've got a fucking cheek to try to emotionally blackmail her like that to be honest. How twatty.

people accused of bullying still have a job then there is no proof that anything happened.

Think you'll find in most workplaces they find it easier to lose one person than a team of people. Then promptly bury their head in the sand.

^^
They were my notes. I didn't send anything, I talked to her.

WelshMaenaed surely A refusing to attend B's wedding unless several other people are univited is also emotional blackmail (or just blackmail). I imagine it's pretty hard to have your wedding without a MoH. I'm not married but they have jobs and duties right up to and including the day don't they?

I've experienced both school and work bullying.

The difference is that work bullying is never acknowledged by the organisation even if you take them to the steps of a tribunal and they pay you a fuck of a lot of money to shut up.

Victims are never believed totally. Often their closest friends realise they had a terrible time, know how much the settlement was even though you are sworn to secrecy but somehow convince themselves that it was a mistake, or my favourite the 'personality clash', because the bully doesn't get sacked.

Well, they do eventually if they cost the company enough fuss and money. But only when the dust has settled and then they leave by 'mutual agreement '.

You have to be dogged and have a very supportive family and band of friends and good mental health. I know so many people who've walked out of jobs without a penny like A has.

It's not because they're weak or imagining things, but because the strain was making them ill.

Yeah, the investigation into my work bully went nowhere despite me supplying a file of emails that went back over a year, another underling of hers resigning a month after I did with similar claims, and several people coming forward in support of both us underlings. She was higher up the ladder and I'd already told them I wasgoing to resign, they'd rather lose us than her, we were easier to replace. It doesn't mean it didn't happen, it doesn't mean I made it up, it doesn't take away the emotional impact and the fact that it affected my physical health badly. They didn't sack a whole team over someone who had already resigned = it never happened? What a fucking stupid, horrible assumption. Your poor friend. I hope she has some REAL friends in her life who believe and support her, because you and B sound like cocks.

No, you silly girl, it's self preservation. Anyone I valued enough to be my maid of honour would have been protected from people who made her life hell at any event where I had control over the guest list, because MOH status implies I care about them.

Have not read the whole thread but the OP caught my eye because I also left a job after being bullied.

10 years later it would still make me extremely uncomfortable ( shaking,tears feeling unwell etc) if I had to see the Boss who bullied me again.

I wouldn't be able to go to the wedding if I knew he would be there but then again I don't think any one who knew me well enough to ask me to be Maid of Honour at her wedding would invite this particular bully to her wedding!

Also there is no offence at an industrial tribunal of bullying.

You have to prove other things such as being set up to fail etc. It can be done but you have to be a meticulous note taker and evidence gatherer.

It's also very difficult to get colleagues to give evidence for you because many of them are scared it's going to happen to them next. The irony is that once you're gone it'll be someone else next, and maybe it will be them.

I can understand that though. What I can't understand or forgive are people who weakly say: 'I'm sure it never really happened', 'she's just sensitive', 'it's six of one, half dozen of the other.'

I reserve my greatest contempt for those who say: 'I don't do confrontation.'

Hang on, didn't you just say that OP?

wow. I'd feel awful if I was A. Her thought process could be: "I left my job for being bullied. My best friend invites the bullies (whether the bullying was real or not, A obviously felt it was) to the wedding. I try to pull out. Another friend calls me and tries to bully me into attending. I have been told I can't not go. I have lost my job, my best friend, and another friend. Those fuckers have won. "

OP - is the wedding really so sodding important, compared to utterly destroying another human being?

whether the bullying was real or not, A obviously felt it was

Exactly. Bullying is defined by the effect it has on the victim, not the perceptions of bystanders about what does and does not constitute bullying.

Look at it from A's point of view - do you really think she would miss being MOH at her alleged best friend's wedding over some ex colleagues unless she really felt she just couldn't cope with it? My best friend is getting married next month and there are very very few things that would stop me from going, but the attendance of that bitch that ground me into the dirt would be one of them. I just couldn't do it to myself. How about you stop thinking about whether B 'deserves' her MOH's attendance and wonder whether A 'deserves' to know that her friends care jack shit about her feelings?

if A is a best friend then where are B's loyalties? Why is the friendship bit of this so difficult to understand?

There is no obligation to invite work colleagues to a wedding. How did that happen?

If bullying were easy to prove there would be less of it, bullies don't look like monsters, they don't make it obvious what they're doing they break you down bit by bit and come across so reasonable and nice that the victim often looks like the unreasonable one.

And now it seems that friend A has to make everything ok otherwise she is soley responsible for ruining the wedding?? I think that's totally unfair. It is not childish and selfish to not want to put herself in a situation where she feels victimised again, if I were her I wouldn't go and I'd be seriously reassessing my relationship with friend B.

And as for whether the bullying really happened or not you'll probably never know, I tend to believe my close friends when they tell me things especially over people I am not that close to.

Naoko is right, you're underestimating how bad bullying can be and you need to decide whether you believe her or not.