Who is being unreasonable here? Wedding drama.

[manicinsomniac]

Ok, trying to keep the background simple and not too specific:

A while ago friend A quit her job, very suddenly, because she said she was being bullied by some of our colleagues.

Friend B is getting married. Friend A is the maid of honour.

Friend B has invited the 'bullying' colleagues to the wedding (partly out of politics but also because they are friendly with each other)

Right, so, last night friend B phoned me crying because friend A is now refusing to come to the wedding if the bullies come. She says it will make her physically sick to see them.

My response was 'for God's sake she's 40 not 10!' and I have more or less told friend A that to her face, in slightly less harsh terms.

Friend B asked me to try and talk friend A round and let her know how upset she was. My take on it was that if A is really B's best friend then she will appreciate that it is B's day, she can invite who she likes and that A will have to deal with it and socialise in an appropriate, polite, adult fashion.

A is now 'not speaking' to me I may have accidentally used the words selfish and childish . And doesn't appear any closer to giving in.

Who do you think is being unreasonable? Is Friend A pathetic? Is Friend B a bridezilla? Am I taking B's side unfairly and not appreciating A's POV?

I really don't think B should uninvite anyone but she will have to accept that her matron of honour won't be there. It's a bit emotionally blackmailing of A I think.

I think that ultimately B should be able to invite who she wants to her own wedding.

But it is a delicate situation, and I think it was inappropriate to take the 'childish and selfish' tack with A. It would have been better to suggest she gives it some time to decide, and to offer support and some practical ideas for coping at the wedding.

she quit her job suddenly because of the bullying and you don't have any sympathy for how she might feel? It will make her physically sick.

If she is close enough to B to be her maid of honour then B should have more regard for her feelings surely? Why is B prioritising the bullies over her maid of honour?

I also think you are the bride.

In answer to your questions
no
yes
yes

You obviously have very little time for friend A, and believe the colleagues. Friend A is "childish", according to you - while the bullies other friends are "delightful".

Bullies are often charming people. They are full of confidence - after all, who's going to challenge them? They often have excellent social skills.

I think both you and the bride need to spend some time assuming Friend A is right about this - and with that "hat" on, consider the predicament she is in. Quitting her job over bullying is a huge deal. To suggest it isn't is very odd.

From your last post it now sounds like your feelings about A are affected by the fact that she doesn't need to work and the rest of you do.

DH was bullied at work and left as a result. He would never agree to even be in the same building as his bully and makes a pointed effort not to even use roads near where he used to work.

B can invite who she likes, but must accept A's decision.

People don't usually quit their jobs over nothing though do they? Things have to get pretty dire for someone to actually take that sort of risk?

Fwiw I feel really sorry for A, you and B do sound unreasonable imo, but the bride is being a total bridezilla with her crying and tantrums. Wedding day or not, she is really the one who is behaving selfishly and childishly. Despite what many women seem to think, getting married is not an excuse to behave like a spolit brat.

'No, she has no new job, she says she's happier not working and she doesn't need to work.'

This may be bravado on her part. She may actually feel unable to work but has to field questions from people.

just because you didn't witness it it doesn't mean the bullying didn't happen, i have been bullied as an adult by people who others considered to be "lovely", it just makes it so much harder when people don't believe you.

if friend A is the brides best friend and the bullies are just people she gets on with or is friendly with as you suggested then she should not have invited them in the first place. i love my best friend and would never put her in that position.

no matter what age you are (40 or 10!) bullying is a horrible lonely thing to put up with and the last thing this lady needs is her "friends" telling her that she is the one acting childish.

i understand it must be difficult for you being caught in the middle but going from what you've said it sounds like you've both screwed friend A over.

Okay. Thanks for the insights.

I'm really, really not the bride though. I've never survived in a relationship for longer than 2 months - seriously! That's why I have no idea about etiquette and priorities in these things.

What if one of the bullies accused somebody else of bullying?

If all accusations of bullying are to be believed with no question, then the bullies themselves may also be victims, and deserving of sympathy.

As for them being typical bullies with great social skills, er, you just made that up. Op said they were delightful. Maybe she meant kind, friendly and empathetic?

"As for them being typical bullies with great social skills, er, you just made that up. Op said they were delightful. Maybe she meant kind, friendly and empathetic?"

I just did a web search on how to recognise a bully. This is at the top of the first page that came up.

"Jekyll & Hyde nature ? vicious and vindictive in private, but innocent and charming in front of witnesses; no-one can (or wants to) believe this individual has a vindictive nature ? only the current target sees both sides"

I've seen this first hand more than once. The child who made my daughter's life a misery every day for two years was the most gorgeous, angelic, kind, polite and pleasant child you could ever care to come across. She was help up as a shining example of regularly by the staff and they didn't want to believe she was capable of bullying.

When the girls moved to the next school the staff were more vigilant and caught her red-handed. They weren't taken in by the "kind, friendly and empathetic" persona she displayed to everyone else, thank goodness!

Everyone thought my boyfriend was charming, funny and friendly. Had no idea he was abusing me behind closed doors. Morriszapp you're talking shite.

I walked out of work a few years ago because of bullying and haven't worked since. The women responsible were all very popular, outgoing, charming and everyone loved them. That's why I got so little support when they treated me like shit. My friends would never put those women before me. Never. You and the bride are being very unreasonable and A is better off without friends like you two.

Also, suppose, just suppose, the bullying is all a figment of A's imagination. She's taken things the wrong way, read things into situations which weren't there etc. The situation, even if entirely faultless, caused her such distress that she left work. It still causes her so much distress that she'd rather miss her best friends wedding than face these people again. Even if these other women have done nothing wrong, their presence causes great distress to the bride's best friend. Why is the bride not more concerned for her best friend?

Team Friend A here too.

It isn't as if she can avoid them and lie low, she's the maid of honour, on show, in front of everyone.
For a bullying victim it would be an awful position to be in.

I don't think her best friend is much of a friend either. I feel sorry for her. :(

What HiHowAreYou said. Poor Friend A!!

I come across as confident, knowledgable , and sure in my opinions.
I was also bullied out of a job, and have been bullied in this one.

In both situations the bully was seen as lovely etc. . .

It was only through the belief and support of my real friends that I got through the first incidence, and am able to deal with the second.

My so called non-friends in the first area were very like you, very for Gods sake you're an adult how can she be bullying you? Oh and the classic, it's just a personality clash. It wasn't, it was constant nit picking, snide remarks and put down that most people only saw 5-6% of. And(because I hadn't discovered MN then) when the comments were made in front of others I didn't know what to say, and when I finally reacted I was seen as being hysterical and overreacting. and yes I was accused of imaging it and being over sensitive.

If I'd only had 'did you mean to be so rude.'

It wasn't till she having lost her scapegoat, me, and turned on one of them that they started to get it. And she did work her way through most of them.

Again in present job, the bully is very liked seen as been everyone's friend. Except when you take a step back you realise all the shit stirring that is going on. And see a team that was very together and supportive now isn't.

Anyway even the thought of being in the same room as my bully turns my stomach, and it is one of those situations where unless you have been in the same situation or are very empathetic you just won't get it.
However that doesn't mean you can't try, telling someone that their efforts to protect themselves are selfish and childish is in itself bullying. You are telling her that her feelings aren't valid.

I appreciate that you are caught in the middle but to be honest if I were you I'd step back now.

I feel really sorry for your friend A. It is so much harder for a victim when the bullies happen to be friends with your friends.

As a teenager I was bullied by a group of very well liked girls who had initially been my friends. When these started bullying me our mutual friends remained chummy with my bullies and this ostracised me because I lost friends who called me a liar.

Whether you can see it or not, Friend A is being ostracised here. Just because these people have been perfectly nice to you does not render them incapable of being bullies. Nobody who is brave enough to say their being bullied should be belittled with words like "childish".

We all need our jobs and have to get along with each other and work closely together. When there's an atmosphere (as there will be if B has to uninvite the colleagues) work is a miserable place and we need to be there 60 plus hours a week.^

Friend A is obviously closer to Friend B then any of these colleagues otherwise she wouldn't be maid of honour. So why on Earth did Friend B invite them? The fact that they are your colleagues might mean you need to stay on good terms with them, but they certainly didn't need to be invited to the wedding. Uninviting them might make a kerfuffle (although she could make up a lie such as sorry I over invited venues capacity reached etc) but really if Friend A had been that important to her she wouldn't invited these colleagues.

I'm undecided and think the bride is in an awfully hard situation. i think people are being really harsh to the OP and the bride without really knowing the full facts about what went on or the personalities of the people involved.

The bride has done nothing wrong really but having to try and deal with all this fall out, trying to keep everyone happy. Sounds like added stress she doesn't need. And these other women are friends also and the bride has to continue working with them. Guess, she has to decide what is more important. Keeping A happy and maybe the friends will understand if she explains her dilemma. Or she leaves the decision to A about what she wants to do and if she declines the invite then accept it graciously rather than making it awkward for her.

YABU and horrible to call her childish and selfish. Just because you haven't wtinessed the bullying doesn't mean it didn't happen. Bullies can be cunning and sly, making themselves out to be wonderful to others whilst bullying one person is typical, as the bullied person feels isolated and less likely to be believed.

In fact, it doesn't matter whether or not your colleagues meant to bully her - their intention does not reflect the perception of A, therefore they may have been bullying her unwittingly.

The bride may invite whomever she chooses, but if A is MOH then why would she choose others over her?

What did your workplace do about the bullying?

A sounds well shot of all of you

X posted with stunt. What a horrible lot you are

This. You all sound lovely

Bullying behaviour is a sore issue for me, having watched my work colleagues dragged into taking my bully's side because I dared to stand up for myself and they wanted 'a quiet life'. Now the bully/narcissist has left they wonder why I am reluctant to take their 'friendship' back up. Bullies should not be tolerated but they are clever and caniving and the innoccent are pulled in.

IMHO, if friend B was a true friend she would understand (because she would have witnessed) the destruction caused by people who bully. If she is prepared to invite the bullies to her wedding (thus condoning their behaviour against her 'friend'), then she would be no friend of mine.

YAB so U. To be honest, it now sounds like you and the bride are now bullying A for...being bullied.

Please realise what shit friends you are being. This woman felt strongly enough to quit her job. If the bride wants to invite the bullies knowing what's gone on, that is her perogative, but A should not be attacked for choosing not to attend events were they are present.

I think A is quite right to not be speaking to either of you.

"i love my best friend and would never put her in that position"

Actually - this from hzgreen sums it up for me. I can't imagine putting my best friend in this position. Really, I can't.

I was bullied out of a job & whilst I want nothing more to do with those people I could tolerate spending a day in their company.

However, I do wonder why the bride is friends with these people if they made her supposed best friend feel so bad?