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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to keep DS off school until they can look after him properly??

206 replies

ASecretLemonadeDrinker · 25/03/2011 14:59

I am so upset and so angry. DS has soiling problems - waiting for paed. app. afte fruitless GP visits/diet changes. Have had threads in the past (me being called to take DS home, all the time he is sitting on a paper towel in his own shit) and today was the sae. Although, today was "so bad we had to change him" (!??!) but he came home socks covered in shit, dry shit down his les and shorts on so they could definatly see it all! THey had half heartedly changed him thenshoved clean shorts on him and made him wait for me like that. And he missed the last hour or so of school - again. I have talked and talked to them - they said they would remind and "make" him go after lunch (the only luck I have is getting him to try and sometimes we time it right - other than that he has little/no sense of going) - DS tells me they haven't. He jumped was soaked with poo , hands dirty & stunk of poo.... They just handed him over and told me to "gee him up" with toileting.

I can't snd him back, I just can't - my heart breaks when I seeing him sitting on him own in his own poo patiently waiting for me :(

OP posts:
TrinityIsABunnyMunchingRhino · 25/03/2011 15:01

how old is hs?

surely he needs some sort of carer

aren't schools not supposed to change children

4FoxAche · 25/03/2011 15:02

Oh your poor boy.

I don't know what a schools policy is on changing soiled pants as I don't have children in school yet, but just the fact they can't even seem to remind him to go is bad enough.

I wouldn't be sending him back.

Hope things go well with the paed.

Original poster
ASecretLemonadeDrinker · 25/03/2011 15:03

he is 4.

OP posts:
Birdsgottafly · 25/03/2011 15:05

You need to see the head. Ask if they can add weight to getting the report. Meanwhile he needs a careplan in place. Is he over 5?. It is then a legal requirement that is education does not suffer because of a medical condition. Do you have the local parentpartnership involved?. Don't make threats of keeping him off, turn it around on to the school. It is their lack of care that is interupting his education.

ENormaSnob · 25/03/2011 15:06

Is he in reception or nursery?

What do national teaching guidelines say about this?

Birdsgottafly · 25/03/2011 15:06

All schools have an inclusive (SN) policy so can accommodate changing, it is his age and lack of diagnosis that is the problem. You need to push for one.

4FoxAche · 25/03/2011 15:07

Well, if he is 4 I would definitely take him out.

He doesn't need to start formal education until the term after his 5th birthday. Now I don't know how far away that is but you never know, things might be better by that point or even if not, you would hopefully have seen the paed to get some help/advice etc.

themildmanneredjanitor · 25/03/2011 15:07

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Birdsgottafly · 25/03/2011 15:08

Appointments very often have to be chased up. Have you let them now if you can do a short notice appointment and given them a mobile number?, this sometimes helps as they do have cancelations.

Birdsgottafly · 25/03/2011 15:10

Adding toTMMJ post if it is medical then special pants can be worn so that he isn't in as much of a mess.

Birdsgottafly · 25/03/2011 15:11

Children with soiling problems do not have to be in SN schools or home schooled.

MizzyDizzy · 25/03/2011 15:12

Your post made my eyes spring a leak. Sad

Your poor son.

I would not be sending him back until something was sorted out either.

For the minute I don't know what else to say, I have no relevant experience to draw on...

meditrina · 25/03/2011 15:13

Poor you!

Teachers are not there to clean up after accidents, but I'd always hope that out of sheer humanity there would be some way of doing an adequate clean up (it's not that uncommon for reception children to wet themselves or sometimes soil).

You need to ask again what will be done if/when this happens again (presumably as there is no dx there is no forecast of how long it may take to resolve?). And supply spare clothes, wipes and sealable plastic bags if you can persuade them to nominate someone to clean up.

If he needs to be taken to the loo regularly, can your doctor write a letter for you explaining it is a medical necessity? This will assure the school that it is a medical issue under active attention, and might help persuade them that measures need to be in place to ensure thus happens.

silverfrog · 25/03/2011 15:14

TMMJ: how would your school cope with an incontinent (SN) child, then?

facilities have to be available - other posters are right, it is the age of OP's son, and the lack of dx which menas this is being dealt with cack-handedly.

OP: show the school your paed appt letter. this is a medical issue (or being investigated as one) - the DDA does not allow for this kind of exclusion due to somehting the child cannot help.

god, this makes me so angry, and has done ever since we had to fight to get dd1 accepted into school not toilet trained (she has severe ASD).

no facilites, my arse. they ahve to find the facilities. they cannot exclude on this basis.

4FoxAche · 25/03/2011 15:14

Maybe not birdsgottafly. But they don't need to be in 'Mainstream' school sat in their own shit either do they.

BornAgainDomesticGoddess · 25/03/2011 15:14

Oh, poor love Sad

Can you homeschool him for a while? At least until you have seen the paediatrician?

surfandturf · 25/03/2011 15:14

I 've seen one of your threads before. The schools actions are disgraceful and I really feel for your poor DS Sad

I know schools are there to educate children but at the same time your child is in their care. If you sent him with a few spare changes of pants and trousers, would it really be too much trouble for someone to clean him up properly with a bit of soap and water and put his soiled clothes in a bag to bring home? He is missing out on important learning time at school in addition to the embarrassment the poor thing must be going through.

I would be livid and can completely understand why you wouldn't want to send him back there untill they start caring from him properly. YANBU

Original poster
ASecretLemonadeDrinker · 25/03/2011 15:16

what if he has these problems forever? I can't keep him hidden away at home for all eternity :(

Pants would minimise the mess, but he would still need to be changed otherwise he will be sore.

I tried to work wth them, our plan was they 'make' him go after lunch.

He is 5 on Sunday, am I legally allowed to keep him from school under the circumstances?

OP posts:
Birdsgottafly · 25/03/2011 15:17

He will not be the only pupil in school with additional needs when he turns five and the TA's are aware that they may need to provide personal care if needed. Incase it is a long term problem, hopefully not, you need to get advice and speak to the school now. Perhaps nursery provision? if he enjoys the interaction of a school setting.

CalamityKate · 25/03/2011 15:17

My DS had a soiling problem when he first started school. His teacher was so lovely about it - I had to sign a letter stating that I was happy for her to clean him up but she was always smiley and "Oh, it's fine - don't worry about it!" and never made either me or him feel bad.

I still get a bit teary remembering how kind she was about it LOL! I'm a sucker for anyone who is nice to my DC's Grin

silverfrog · 25/03/2011 15:18

Op. tbh, if your ds has little sensation of going/needing a poo then I would be looking at continence products - either standard pull ups (you can get well designed t shirts which menas no one else woudl know) or proper pants to deal with it.

yes, his friends might notice. but they are also goign to notice his accidents. and I know which one I'd rather everyone around my child noticed.

but school woudl still need to come up with a way of dealign with changing him, as he woudl need changing, even if there was less overall mess.

ENormaSnob · 25/03/2011 15:19

Who will teach the rest of the class whilst the teacher cleans ops son up?

I have zero experience in teaching so could be talking bollocks, but, if this is a regular occurance then I don't see how a teacher or ta can effectively deal with it. And should they be dealing with it?

tethersend · 25/03/2011 15:19

As far as legislation goes, things are a little contradictory-

No teacher can be required to change a child (this does not include support staff). However, teachers/the school has a duty of care to the child, and must act in loco parentis.

I would argue that the duty of care extends to not leaving a child sat in his own shit on a paper towel.

Put bluntly, the school needs to ensure that there are staff at school who will change children when necessary; although they will not be allowed to compel teachers to do this. It will therefore have to be support staff.

Birdsgottafly · 25/03/2011 15:20

You need to find out what the wait is on his appointment as it is going to impact on him once he turns five. Make sure that they realise this as they will see a child in school quicker than a younger child. There is help and solutiona available it is just a bit of a battle at first.

silverfrog · 25/03/2011 15:21

EnormaSnob - that is for the school to work out.

agree with tehtersend, it iwll probably turn out ot be supprt staff.

but the school cannot exclude on the basis of a disability/medical need.

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