to keep DS off school until they can look after him properly??

[ASecretLemonadeDrinker]

I am so upset and so angry. DS has soiling problems - waiting for paed. app. afte fruitless GP visits/diet changes. Have had threads in the past (me being called to take DS home, all the time he is sitting on a paper towel in his own shit) and today was the sae. Although, today was "so bad we had to change him" (!??!) but he came home socks covered in shit, dry shit down his les and shorts on so they could definatly see it all! THey had half heartedly changed him thenshoved clean shorts on him and made him wait for me like that. And he missed the last hour or so of school - again. I have talked and talked to them - they said they would remind and "make" him go after lunch (the only luck I have is getting him to try and sometimes we time it right - other than that he has little/no sense of going) - DS tells me they haven't. He jumped was soaked with poo , hands dirty & stunk of poo.... They just handed him over and told me to "gee him up" with toileting.

I can't snd him back, I just can't - my heart breaks when I seeing him sitting on him own in his own poo patiently waiting for me :(

By law the school has to have provisions in place to provide care if there is a medical condition present. This is under the Children Act 1989 and Every Child Matters.

I'm not saying op should pull her son out and HE because of this problem, I'm just saying it might be a good idea to until op and the school can come up with a solution that both parties are happy with.

Is there a medical condition, Birdsgottafly? Thought OP was waiting for a paed referral?

Sorry if I've missed anything, but I would be wary of quoting that legislation until a dx is made...

My kids aren't SN...but even so...

All my kids when they were this age had the odd soiling accident at school...they all felt safe enough to tell someone before they sat in it though so it was easy to clean up.

I used to send spare clothes everyday, a bag for dirty clothes and a mini packet of wipes, if my kids didn't need them usually another kid in the class did at sometime or another.

If nothing else your child should feel safe enough to tell someone he has had an accident before getting into such a state surely.

4Foxache- that was my whole point, to suggest the school cannot clean a child is stupid, read all my posts. There's been a major lack of training if the head does not know exactly what can be done the leglislation has been in place for at least twelve years now. The school would also be breaking the law. As i pointed out is it all new top a parent when a child has additional needs but there is systems in place to deal with every problem. I am experienced in SN.

How will the plan of care differ if it is a medical issue as opposed to not?

I can't see how it will work if the teacher has to sort this daily.

tethersend- my earlier post said the problem was a lack of diagnosis. I posted as i did because this is a forum for parents and having been through the SN process and qualified in these matters i thought that i would give the facts of what a school is obliged to do.

A dx of a medical condition may enable the school to source funding for support.

surely at 4 there should be a TA in there anyways to supervise the class if your son needs cleaning?

your post made me well up OP, I saw my 4 yr old sat in his own mess in my minds eye, its just not on.

I would keep him from school until you had seen the consultant,

I would be writing offiicially to the school explaining that I was withdrawing my son from school and that once his diagnosis was through you expect a meeting about his care when he returns.

I'm not clued up on SN issues but I know that once his diagnosis come through I would make sure the school was ready to deal with his needs effectivly.

ENS-the school can 'buy in' and be given the funds for TA's if the have pupils with additional needs so there is no excuse to not accommodate a 'problem'

Sorry Birds, missed your earlier post.

I am a teacher and am fairly well versed on the legislation surrounding this issue.

Ooh, your poor boy

And enorma most reception classes have at least two assistants and a teacher, no way should the boy be humiliated and left to sit in his own shit, my 9 year old nephew who has SN was in nappies until recently and a half decent clean up job should take no longer than 5 minutes

When my ds started mainstream nursery I was concerned about possible toileting issues (ASD, Learning Disability and Non verbal at the time). We had a care plan in place and I sent in wipes, nappy sacks and a change of clothes just in case. If I remember correctly school added latex gloves and plastic aprons. As it happens he never had an accident at nursery but the plan was in place if needed.

Personal care needs were written into his TA's contract and as it took him years to learn to wipe himself this was necessary.

I don't think taking your child out of school is the answer. Ask to see the schools policy and see if you can work from there. Good luck.

If the OP puts it in writing that she is withdrawing her son then she becomes responsable for his lack of education. Speak to the head, she may not be aware of the probl;em and as i said can add weight to hurrying up his appointment.

Is the school obliged if there are no sn and no dx?

I have no issue with a teacher cleaning the odd accident but it seems inappropriate expecting this on a daily basis.

Can he wear pull ups and some boxers over them so its not obvious he has them on

surey they can remove a pull up, wipe and put his pants on?

much lss messy then it going dwn his legs etc

Cheesy, I certainly wouldn't expect any child to be left in that state.

I was just asking as it seems such a grey area as to who has responsibility to who etc.

I'd pull him out of school and go back to the GP to explain the situation and see if they can speed up the referral. It's not acceptable for a child to be left with shit down his legs. What is he like at the weekend?

no, don't send him back
the schools attitude is not good
speak to the head
bless him

ENS- it would never be the teacher but a TA. A child would not soil itself for long without good reason, a child can regress at the loss of a parent, for example. If it was a lack of being taught to use a toilet then a SS referal would be made, to help redress this. They would use a mentoring service for this.

www.telegraph.co.uk/education/primaryeducation/5956231/Pupils-start-school-still-in-nappies.html
This article from the Telegraph talks about the fact that with children starting school earlier the inevitable consequence is that there will be some children in nappies or with continence problems etc and that schools are not necessarily prepared for this but could be contravening inclusion laws by refusing to deal with accidents and nappies etc.
With effect from this September for the first time all children will have the right to start a full-time place at school from the September after their 4th birthday (I know this was always the case in some authorities, but many had 2 or even 3 intakes meaning that children couldn't start school until the term in which they turn 5). The arrival of younger children in schools necessitates schools to look at their policies on nappy-changing and continence and many Local Authorities have written to schools to say that they need to ensure they have a "robust nappy-changing policy" in place.
YOur child's school may well find it massively inconvenient that your child soils himself regularly but they really do need to just deal with it sympathetically and not isolate him by making him wait until you collect him, that is an incredibly cruel and negligent approach!
IF your child is 5 in a few weeks then next term (ie after the Easter hols) he is legally required to be in education. So legally you culd keep him off for the next couple of weeks and let him have a nice long Easter hols to relax and not be humiliated by his own school but next term he needs to be in education. I would suggest you meet with the head and explain how disatisfied and upset you have been with how some of the incidents have been dealt with. Demonstrate that you are doing all you can to look into the medical rasons why he is still soiling himself. Expalin that you are keeping him off until after the Easter hols and that whilst you will keep them informed of what is happening with regard to getting an appointment to look into the medical reasons for his incontinence, you would also like in writing from them, some assurance about how things will be dealt with sensitively next term as the problem is unlikely to go away overnight.
Good luck, and I hope things improve for you and your son.

Is it possible for the OP to go in each day say after lunch and take him to the toilet?? If he has a regular time then perhaps that might work??

Failing that bearing in mind his age - I'd just keep him at home until you've had the Paed appointment and perhaps worked out why this is happening.

It too would break my heart if that was happening to my child each day and they were being treated so badly. Surely just worrying about having an accident could make things worse for him

I would request to see a copy of the school's continence policy. The policy should set out how they would enable a child who is singly or doubly incontinent to have access to the education they are legally entitled to. Our policy sets out how the child will be changed (which is by a single adult but with the minimum level of assistance the child needs), who is responsible for providing spare clothing and wipes (parent) and how the soiled items will be disposed of. Our policy states a parent would only be contacted if the child was unduly distressed.

If this policy is not being adhered to (and your DS should be treated in the same way whether he soils because of a medical condition or because of a developmental delay in that area), then I would request an appointment with Senco and Headteacher to get this sorted asap. If the policy states they will leave a child sitting in their own faeces until the parent collects them (which I highly doubt), I would make an appointment with Chair of Governors and explain that you find the policy unacceptable. If, after you have seen the Senco and Head the situation doesnt improve, I would make an appointment with Chair of Governors to discuss DDA and Inclusion.

IMO the school are failing to comply with the DDA, and I would be taking steps to ensure they do or moving your DS elsewhere.

I'd seriously consider a different school if possible too... they obviously don't have a caring attitude, shocking way to deal with such a sensitive issue

Your poor son and you.

It's not ideal but while the official stuff is going through its channels can you send in a pack of wipes and some carrier bags to store them in? That's so they can go home without having to be 'clinical waste' that the school might not yet be set up to deal with. It might make the clean up easier, and he can do some himself too, to make it less intimate.
I am a teacher and help when I can but my union says I'm not really supposed to and to put it bluntly I'm not trained to help with these things like a health professional would be. Not all TAs will be trained in intimate care either.