to keep DS off school until they can look after him properly??

[ASecretLemonadeDrinker]

I am so upset and so angry. DS has soiling problems - waiting for paed. app. afte fruitless GP visits/diet changes. Have had threads in the past (me being called to take DS home, all the time he is sitting on a paper towel in his own shit) and today was the sae. Although, today was "so bad we had to change him" (!??!) but he came home socks covered in shit, dry shit down his les and shorts on so they could definatly see it all! THey had half heartedly changed him thenshoved clean shorts on him and made him wait for me like that. And he missed the last hour or so of school - again. I have talked and talked to them - they said they would remind and "make" him go after lunch (the only luck I have is getting him to try and sometimes we time it right - other than that he has little/no sense of going) - DS tells me they haven't. He jumped was soaked with poo , hands dirty & stunk of poo.... They just handed him over and told me to "gee him up" with toileting.

I can't snd him back, I just can't - my heart breaks when I seeing him sitting on him own in his own poo patiently waiting for me :(

I had the same issue with one of my DC. It was happening about 3 times a week. (The underlying problem was due to constipation by the way and was eventually resolved when we saw a specialist nurse and had movicol prescribed. Prior to that we had been prescribed lactulose but that caused additional problems - it works for some people but not for others apparently).

The school had one Teaching assistant who was willing to change/clean up my child (with my permission) and had gloves, wipes etc provided. I also bought lots and lots of very cheap packs of pants and told them they could cut off/take off the dirty ones and throw them away rather than have to save them for me.
But if that assistant was not there (she only worked part time and sometimes had days off etc) then I would be called to the school. School said that they had no duty to clean them up unless we went through a long process of getting paperwork in place for special needs. So there were occasions when I was called at very inconvenient times and had to pay for a taxi (I was working in town) to take me to the school to sort it out.

At the time I knew the summer holidays were about a month away and decided to tolerate it in the hope that we could resolve the underlying problem by the time the next year began (which we pretty much did).

The main issue for me was not to make my child feel bad about the problem - it was very much "never mind, it was an accident due to your tummy problem - let's just clean up and put new pants on" etc. And I had to try not to let it show that I was upset or worried about it. The teaching assistant was lovely thank goodness. Is it worth approaching them to see if any teaching assistants would "volunteer" to help?

What is wrong with using wet wipes? The school doesn't need any 'facikities' to deal with this, just willing teachers. When Ds had his problem the head wasn't involved at all. He is at private school but that shouldn't make a difference. His teacher was concerned for his welfare. If she didn't have time to help clean him up she got another member of staff to do it. I felt awful about it but they were very sympathetic. As were the staff at after school care (where it happened too). In fact I don't think there was anything more they could have done. As a single parent working 1.5 hours away from the school it was hugely reassuring to know that they would deal with it without me getting a call at work to come and collect him.

I agree with some of the others - your son's soiling sounds like it could be due to constipation with overflow diarrhoea. I'm not a medical professional but used to be a paediatric secretary and I typed countless GP letters describing identical symptoms. I hope your upcoming appointment is helpful - it sounds really difficult for you both.

I feel for the OP and her child but there just isn't always someone available to clean up a child. Our year 1 classes only have a TA Mon to Fri from 9 to 12-afternoons is teacher only

snice are all the teachers in your school teaching all the time? At ds's school whomever was available would help sort him out, not necessarily his class teacher or TA.

well godforbid snice, what if a child was sick in the afternoons? No child is going to chose to be ill mornings only, because there is no other staff to help. Im sure the teacher would find the time to clean poorly child up, make sure he/she is ok?
Then there is no excuse for there not to be enough staff to attend to OPs son, its not a 3 hour job, cleaning a child up, 5-10mins max, same time it would take teacher to sort out a spewing child, or a bumped head etc
SNICE, also wonder if you would feel the same, after you received a phone call to pick your DS/DD from school, when you arrive, you are greeted with DS/DD sat on a paper towel, no bottom clothes on, shit all over his socks, arms and hands, then see how reasonable this inhumane treatment is

agree, just tosh - somebody could be available if needbe - this is not happening all day everyday, just ridiculous. Emergencies happen - you can't expect nothing to happen in an afternoon because there are no TA's in that class in an afternoon. We had some classes with no TA at times - didn't mean no one else could help out at all

The school areacting as 'loco parentis'

As a parent, if I left my DS in his own shit and waied for DH to come home rom work to change him, it's neglect.

Therefore, the school are neglecting DS.

I don't care if it's the dinner lady, the caretaker, the head teacher or the Pope who changes him but he will not ever be sat on a paper towel, shut away in the first aid room in his own feces ever again.

Giddy, he is 4, and mostly it happens every few weeks and she has said they are waiting for medical appointment - but I would hardly call that "so frequent" considering his age and he already has an issue with poo.

My Husband is a teacher, he does lots of things Unions would say are not part of his job - and let's face it, if anyone knows anything about teachers unions and teaching, then they would know that most schools would come to a halt if Teachers ONLY did what was advised.

I am support staff and I can say that not anywhere in any contract I have had does it mention I am to clean poo off either..........but I do and will.

What if ALL support staff were off that day? Would the school grind to a halt? Full of teachers refusing to do anything but teach?

Couldn't you try GP rather than weight, and discuss issues of ? Constipation? My DS same age, same trouble, on movicol, lactulose, pico lax every 3days if no action, and we have some micro enemas if all else fails. Did all this through GP, really helpful, saw him weekly at first, then as things improved monthly, now as necessary. Was on all of the above for nearly 8months before we got regulated(took a couple of months to even not be constipated). Then had to retrain his 'floppy rectum'-not a nice term, but there you go, as had forgotten sensation of needing to go. Finally off meds after a year, but always aware, and give lactulose if we think he is struggling. It was hard enough to deal with at home, but my heart goes out to your DS at school:( It really can demoralise them, and is very important that they don't feel bad about it, as they can't stop the overflow, and they don't have the sensation either. Good luck with it all, x

Just read this thread and am horrifed

I know its not typical but i worked in kindergarten at a local private school.

Kindergarten (3-4s) & Reception share their toilets, which have recently been refurbished to include a shower in the corner, (behind a curtain) for exactly this reason. There is also a bath mat and a couple of clean towels avaliable at the bottom of the spare clothes box, just in case.

We also had supplies of fragrance free baby wipes and nappy sacs, so less messy accidents could be wiped up if ok. (more often than not baby wipes were enough)

Now no staff member wiped childrens bottoms after a poo (even at just 3) , they had to do it themselves, but were always cleaned up properly if they had an accident.

If your son soiled himself at that school he would cleaned with wipes or even be showered if necessary, put in clean clothes, and gone back to normal lessons, and would NOT have been sent home.

I know this is not normal for state schools. At our school we also suncremed the children, and the whole class shared a bottle of suncream & the teachers applied it (I realise this isnt common in state schools) (NB any parent who had a problem could of course provide their own sun cream for their child, but i didnt come across any parent who minded!)

As he is not yet 5 you dont legally have to send him to school yet anyway

I posted earlier making the point that all infant classes don't have TAs on hand all day as there was a lot of comment that there is always a class TA who could deal with a soiled child. I was making the point that in many cases this isn't so -we have no afternoon TAs in infants other than in the reception class.

I was not trying to imply that the OPs child should be left to sit in his own shit-of course he shouldn't, that would be inexcusable. There needs to be a plan in place for this situation and I am upset that people are implying that I am some sort of heartless bitch!

I was just reiterating that its not always as easy as it sounds for staff-we have no spare teachers MollieO nor do we have floating support staff-they have been cut to the bone due to budget issues.

Oh and no showers or wash rooms here either! I have attended to many children who have had accidents at school and will continue to do so. I will also be giving them a cuddle where necessary.

Reading nanny1's post made me think that the OP's son is maybe just not ready to be in school just yet, and taking him out until he is might be best.
We certainly don't have showering facilities., or the ability to deal with soiling with such meticulous efficiency as a nursery.
When I first posted, suggesting a care plan, I was under the impression that it was a regular problem, as in daily.

goblin i disagree - op says

He does it every few weeks. Some weeks it's twice that week, then nothing for weeks. Once has been twice in a day

he is quite capable of going to the toilet most days but at times his bowel overfills :( and he has accidents

its not as if he is having accidents every day

nannyl school/nursery is different - the average school doesnt have shower rooms, but sure they all have single staff/disabled toilets and op ds can go in there and get changed rather than do in full view of other children in 'normal' kids toilets

he has a medical problem not just him being lazy

the above line disapeered from my post?

BHMF, I think I posted about a plan before the OP explained further. Now I can see why 1:1 and extra measures would be difficult to get funding for.

its not fair :(

To all the people saying what teachers are not 'allowed' to do, at my son's SN school they clean up soiled children, put suncream on them, give them a hug when they are upset etc, and we are often talking about quite big children here, not babies of 4. I can't believe the law is any different for them than it is for teachers in mainstream, so being 'allowed' surely doesn't come into it. Obviously it's never a pleasant job but not so difficult nowadays with some decent wetwipes, plastic bags, sanitary hand-gel etc. It shouldn't take more than a few minutes.
(I write as someone whose son had similar explosive diarrhoea problems due to autism-related gut issues and has had many clean-up operations without the use of showers etc.)
As it happens my son was unaware that he should be embarrassed, social niceties meant nothing to him, but I would still have been appalled if anyone had thought it acceptable to leave him sitting there in his own poo. Goodness knows how the op's little boy feels.

And btw I'm laughing at all the different spellings of 'diarrhoea' on here. Until last year I couldn't spell it either and had to look it up every single time. I just could never remember it, it was like a mental block.

Anyway, then I read the following somewhere and now it's easy to remember :-

Dine In A Rush, Risk Horrid Over Eating Accident.

Hope that helps someone.

quite Pixel

God our schools can be child-unfriendly places sometimes. It beggars belief that any person who works with children - and presumably does so because they have an interest in and care about children - can happily allow a child to remain soiled and deal with it in such a humiliating way. It's due to experiences like that that some children develop phobias and anxieties.
This has made my blood boil. I'm a professional who works with children and young people (not in a school) and while my job has it's parameters I believe strongly that I have a wider duty of care towards the children that I work with. I'm sure many school staff feel the same way, but the ones who don't shouldn't be in the job.

How close to the school do you live? Can you be called in to change him as soon as it happens and then he returns to class after you have cleaned him up at school so he does not miss lessons? I only ask as this is what happened to my Ds when he was in reception last yr.They knew I was happy to come over and sort it out and I only live over the road.
Perhaps ask to speak to the school nurse as I have found ours very helpful and especially good at being willing to liase between the school and the parents to sort out an action plan.