Support group for those affected by someone else's drinking thread 5

[pointythings]

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/alcohol_support/5473399-support-group-for-those-affected-by-someone-elses-drinking-thread-4?page=5

A new thread, because the old one is full - link to previous thread above.

These threads are a safe place for anyone who has an alcoholic in their lives. You can ask for help, you can vent, you can say whatever you need to without judgement. We will listen and support you.

Thanks for the new thread

itwascousinhalifax

I'm so sorry you are in our club. What's your situation re children, work, home (rented or owned?).
Has he ever suggested he would seek help to quit drinking?

Thankyou for the new thread.

Joining in hopefully with the right user name.

Thanks for the new thread (don't know what I'd do without all of you so I was worrying when the old one was filling up!)
welcome @itwascousinhalifax , you're in the right place here, no judgement and lots of shared (crappy!) experience, we'll be here for you💐
My STBX is currently in hospital.
He had one of his drunk, ranty abusive tantrums at 3am Easter Monday , fell and broke three ribs. When he eventually went to A&E Wednesday morning he only had 90% oxygen saturation so they kept him in. This means he's been officially 'dry' for the first time EVER since he was 17 years old (he's 65 October his year). Made him tell the ward staff he's an alcoholic so they also have him on meds to manage the withdrawal symptoms too, plus morphine for the pain. He's hallucinating, dizzy, sweating and trembling, but also had the bare faced cheek to say to me "I'll be okay, I can have some wine as soon as I get home"- WTAF? Oh and I should've thought to take him some more cigarettes in hospital 'because I know how stressed he'd be'.
Tbh ladies, I have begun to hate him, especially with this enforced and unwanted 'carer' role thrust upon me. I'm dreading him coming home; he truly thinks this episode will change things " I know you must've been so worried about me" (I wasn't) and "I'll be better when I'm home with you again".
Like I'm supposed to forget everything he's said and done the last almost 13 years? Including the fact that when he fell this time he was shouting "fucking cunt, fucking slag" at me and was coming at me with his fist raised when he slipped?
I'm channelling all of you and your collective strength and courage ready for when 'my hero' returns (just in time for the weekend - his two 'binge' nights!).
Keeping on keeping on, one breath at a time.....

@zeroclucksgivensurely this could be a golden opportunity for you? Could you see the hospital social worker? Explain the situation including the verbal abuse and potential physical abuse? They might move him somewhere else? How are you going to cope?

@pointythings

Thanks for the new thread. I'm so glad you started this.

@itwascousinhalifax Hope you find us, we're here for you.

You indicated you have no RL support. There are organizations for families of alcoholics. AlAnon is one whose meetings I've attended and others here have used SMART meetings online. AlAnon has a spiritual (not 'religious' per se) component and follows the principles of AA as far as focusing on yourself as the best path. I haven't done any SMART meetings but my understanding is that they don't have a spiritual component.

Also, stop a moment and think about your lack of support. Is there any chance that is because he's alienated you from friends and family or possibly you've stepped away from them because of his drinking? Because if either of these is true, please think about reconnecting. Chances are they're waiting for your call.

Yes, you need to start making a plan. It's not going to get better and will probably get a helluva lot worse. My DH (still dear, but I can't live with him) has had uncontrollable diarrhoea with his drinking. I won't go into specifics, but just say that our house is now a health hazard.

@zeroclucksgiven

I'm so sorry you're having to deal with this!

Since I left, when DH has been in the hospital I've used the time to go to the house and get precious things I couldn't take when I left and/or search for paperwork. Is there any chance you can use these days without him to do the same at your house? Search for paperwork and documents and either copy them or get them out? Same with anything precious that can be moved where he can't get it and destroy it to hurt you. I know he'll be home all too soon, but please use this time for yourself.

As far as my situation, it's confirmed that DH will be discharged to home on Monday. He's been (enforced) sober now for probably a month and swears he'll never drink again. He's saying all the 'right words' and sounds so like his old self that I can feel part of me being sucked back in. Not to moving back, but to believing that 'this time he means it'. And that scares me shitless because it leaves me open to so much pain. And he's expressing so much love and hope 'for our future' that my heart is breaking even more. This time for him, because at some point he's going to realize that I've lied and given him false hope. And I hate that.

And having to walk that fine line to not anger him until the separation is finalized is emotionally debilitating. He was served with all the papers, but I'm sure he remembers nothing. And I have no intention of reminding him. Half of me feels 'not my problem you were too drunk to contact an attorney' and the other half feels guilt that I'm, in essence, lying to him, sort of. He always asks if I'm 'getting a divorce' and I say no. Technically true, but also deliberately concealing that I am getting a legal separation.

My sons have said that if I go back (I'm not even contemplating that), I will lose their support as far as help or listening to any future 'tales of woe'. Tough love I suppose and them not 'enabling' me. But I have no doubt that if it came down to it, I will always choose my sons. And that helps keep me determined to stay put.

Ugh. How is it that one person can feel so many different emotions all at once?

thanks @wouldratgerbeunknown & @AcrossthePond55 .. appreciate your kindness!
Hospital aren't offering any social worker assistance to him or me - they gave him a few leaflets about addiction support and he laughed at them and told them he hadn't asked to detox, he'd had no say in it because the hospital wouldn't let him out. To be honest (and it may sound harsh), I don't want to talk to them either - his ongoing problems are not my concern anymore and he would seize on me talking to them as a sign I still love him, still want to care for him, might change my mind about leaving him if he 'needs' me and I'm not getting back on the runaway train to crazy again!
I have all the documents I need as the divorce is underway and the financial order just waiting for 2026 P60s to be issued. Thankfully, I was 'on it' way before I came to the decision that I was done. Valuables are all at my sisters, sentimental stuff hidden away, after the cabinet incident I wasn't taking any chances.
I am enjoying the peace though it feels weird too to be here without him when his presence is still overpowering every room. I'll have my grandchild staying tonight for the first time without dear old grandad around to put us both on edge, can't wait!
STBX just called from the hospital to tell me his son's going to visit later today and how 'shocked and disappointed' son is that I haven't been visiting him all day every day, 'doesn't she care?'.... same son by the way who's watched his dad screaming abuse at me and pushing me around more than once and in fact this behaviour is why son stopped staying at ours of a weekend.
Everyone's so quick to think I'm the bad person for trying to extricate myself and drop the rope but only because they don't want him turning to them instead of me for support.
Hey ho, same shit, different day🙄
@AcrossthePond55 my sons have said the same to me (tough love), I know that they're only looking out for me and yours are for you too. They're all just scared that if we don't escape soon we'll end up not being able to and then they'll have to watch us suffer even more.
It's horrible when that part of you that loves them still wants you to believe in them and in the possibility of change, it's because then we wouldn't have 'wasted' our time if change does come at last, that the relationship wasn't 'wrong', we didn't love in vain...but it's too late for me/us and perhaps for you too. The guilt you feel that your H may be investing in hope is misplaced...it's on him to hope or not, like it was on him not to destroy your relationship, remember that.
That's not to say you can't choose to hope too if you wish, you have every right to want to give it one more try if you want to. No-one here will judge you; we've all done it time and again and we understand the inner conflict, we really do.
Totally agree with you re emotions - wish with all my heart I could just switch mine off for an hour, the respite would be wonderful. Take care xx

@zeroclucksgiven glad ex to be is in hospital and giving you peace - from everything you and the fact he’s 65 and this has been going on for 40yrs + it’s time to end

if he hadn’t of fallen - would he have hit you ? As sounds like he would have

so well done with divorce paperwork and the financial agreement in place soon. So you are slightly behind me the divorce stakes time wise

@AcrossthePond55you know that yes they are sober now but I will hand on heart say they will drink again so don’t feel Sorry or bad or even confused /doubting self - same for @zeroclucksgiven esp as he’s asking for wine ffs for hometime

@zeroclucksgiven

Your words to me have hit the bullseye square in the centre. That's absolutely what I'm feeling. I'm choosing to squash the hope, but as you know it's not always easy. Hope is like a weed that keeps popping up on our gardens. That 'my new life' garden that we've planted just for ourselves. And as if an answered prayer, he's sent me one of his snotty texts this morning about the dog. So that helped serve as a reminder that the 'bad him' is still there, lurking beneath the surface, and that obviously being sober for a month hasn't changed him all that much. Onwards and upwards.

I'm glad you've gotten so much accomplished and are in a good position for when 'the right time comes'. And I so hear you about the SWs. They talk and talk and never offer a solution that doesn't involve us giving up part of ourselves to an alcoholic. I don't want to be the one they expect to do their job for them by being a 'carer'. It's easier when you don't live with them anymore, but there are still expectations that you'll 'be there' for them, especially when your H reinforces that idea to them. DH always tells them that I will 'be there when he gets home' or 'come by daily'. He's even occasionally told them that I'm still living there. All the SW want to do is just be able to tick the box that says there's 'a care plan' intact so he can be discharged and off their hands. I've started pretty much not answering when the SWs call and letting it go to voicemail so I can hear what it is they think I'm doing or what they want me to do. Then I can formulate my response before I call them back.

Everyone's so quick to think I'm the bad person for trying to extricate myself and drop the rope but only because they don't want him turning to them instead of me for support.

Yep. But remember that this doesn't last. Eventually your H will have imposed on and/or alienated everyone he might try to turn to. DH had a very small pool to begin with, pretty much our sons, my brother, and one remaining friend. But our sons and DB are firmly on my side and won't have anything to do with him, and his one friend who started out supporting him and making suggestions (in a kind 'helpful' way) as to what I should do, now appears to be stepping back from him. I think this friend may still 'take his calls', but I don't think he initiates contact. So give it time, they'll either all drop out of your H's life or you'll find you no longer care what they say or think.

@Penguinsandspaniels

you know that yes they are sober now but I will hand on heart say they will drink again so don’t feel Sorry or bad or even confused /doubting

Yep. This is the truth. It's that 'heart vs head' thing. Luckily the head seems to be leading the race.

@pointythings thanks for new thread

as drunk and annoying and verbally and mentally abusive - ex wasn’t violent or ever pissed on the floor or furniture

I am grateful to that !

small mercies eh

things are ok here at the moment with ex - he’s being civil - still get the sad texts about us divorcing and I just reply - sadly it’s what it’s Come to

I can’t rem if I said on last thread that dd mentioned drinking at school - obv the school know as the day after I kicked him out , I went to See the pastoral care officer and told her what had happened - so this was 2yrs ago - I’ve done enough safeguarding courses myself to know I had to do that so no red flags and high alerts on her

They keep an eye on her but no other issues as she’s never mentioned it at school.

but now she has and said he drinks and vodka at his - she been put on the safe guarding register - I’m a bit WTF as it’s under control - but equally I get they have to do what’s best for dd and to show concern and care for her

she hasn’t stayed at his for over a year

since Sept last year she’s been seeing him but only with me or another adult (big sister) so hasn’t been alone with him for over 6mths

he hasn’t lived with us for over 2yrs and I started divorce proceedings in Sept and hopefully in 8w or so I will be divorced

so there is nothing I can do more , but obv school have to make sure she’s ok

I def didn’t reliese how long divorce takes and tho he’s moaned about it - he hasn’t contested or made things awkward and agreed to what I said

so clean break so gets nothing money wise

house was mine and paid nothing to it

in the financials and what to do with kids bit

dd will live with me forever and no nights with him

pathetic cms of £27.50 a month as on benifits

and it’s taken almost 8mths and still have the final 8w after the Judge has agreed what we wrote about cms and custody ;that’s next Thur I think ) so will be 9.5/10mths in total

if ex contests /disagrees /fights /queries etc - it would have taken longer

but there is light at the end of the tunnel but just giving a word of warning to those starting divorce , how long it takes

@AcrossthePond55 hard as it is, I'm glad you are getting the tough love and being held to account. It's something I didn't have from my family when I was in the thick of it, mainly because my husband was so adamant that we weren't to discuss it outside the two of us. I do wonder if I'd spoken out sooner to someone at work, or pursued it more with my GP at a moment when there genuinely wasan opportunity, I might have left earlier.

Once I was in my support group, I did have people to hold me to account and it helped so, so much to keep me on track.

@Penguinsandspaniels the divorce process is ludicrous and far too lengthy. Having no fault hasn't made it better at all. Mind you, mine had been running for 10 months when he died and that was an open and shut fault divorce.

@pointythings you must have been almost divorced/in the last 8w then ?

agree tough love. I think dh older kids thought I would have taken him back again like I did a year previously / but I said nope. That was it. No more

they did say that if I do take him back that tho they would obv see us / but that they wouldn’t be supporting me and I wasn’t to moan /mention about his drinking annoyance etc

as I said they’ve been very supportive as I do get it’s hard for them. Hes Their dad but equally they know ive done the right thing as of dd

Oh no, I have been out of the madness since 2018. I started divorce proceedings end of October 2017, he died 1st of August 2018, got the decree nisi 12th of August 2018 so I'm a widow, not a divorcee. Made dealing with probate so much easier, I can tell you!

I'm on these threads to pass on the things I learned when I was going through it in the hope that it will help someone else.

Hi all, just wondering if this is the rough place to post. My step-father is an alcoholic. Some years ago there was an extreme incident of abuse whilst he was in one of his blackouts. Since that date I find it incredibly hard to be around anyone who is drunk. I find myself terrified of my partner (who is the loveliest person ever) when he has had more than 4 pints, purely because he is acting drunk. I struggle to go to busy bars etc and if I do then I always want to be sober to have a quick get out. I can only cope with drunk people when I myself have had drinks, I assume it releases some of the tension etc, but I don’t particularly enjoy drinking and I don’t drink regularly. I just don’t know what to do. I cannot get these physical reactions to go away when I am around drink or drunk people, particularly men

Sorry meant in the last 8w of divorce procedure. Judge has agreed

which you did as granted a week or so after he died

Oh yes - I knew it was pretty imminent but when it actually happened my attention was on other things.

Living with an alcoholic always leaves scars. Some of us have reactions to drinking or being around drunk people and as a result we choose NOT to be around them. And you'll find that for some of us, drinking holds no real pleasure anymore. You have to find the solutions that work for you.

As far as your StepF, if he's still in the picture you have an absolute right to NEVER be around him again. Same goes for anyone who makes excuses for him or urges you to 'forgive and forget.

And you also have to decide whether you feel that your DP has a drinking problem or if your reaction is out of proportion.

I think the best thing you can do for yourself is to seek professional help, a counselor or therapist, to work through why you have these reactions.

@allthepeopleso I completely understand where you are coming from. My DC had the same issue - not just around people being drunk, but around people drinking in their presence at all. They have both had considerable amounts of therapy and that has helped them, but early on they also needed accommodations from other people in their lives - so I was very careful drinking in their presence. Does your partner understand and accept where you are coming from?

I still don't like to be around drunk people either. Fortunately I have zero interest in going to pubs and clubs. It's hard.

@pointythings @Penguinsandspaniels

I think no fault works great when you both want it, if you haven't got a pot to piss in, or if there are no DC involved. My NF divorce (ages ago in the US) was done and dusted in exactly 7 months. And 6 months of that was the waiting period. I think if there are no kids involved and the couple has reached an accord on finances that there should be no more than a 60 day wait period but heigh ho, I don't write the laws. I mean, what's the point? Give the divorce and if they are stupid enough to want to reunite, then they can just get married again. Registry office, easy peasy. Or for here a quick trip to Vegas or Reno.

My legal separation was filed in Sept and first court date next week. He defaulted so hopefully it'll be a quick hearing and then all will be finalized. If not I'm looking at a few more months of legal paperwork. And that's just a separation, not a divorce.

My 'bugaboo' is that changing all the joint finances, vehicles, and the house sale are most likely going to fall on me to sort out. I'm going to have to get him to agree to change titles on the vehicles, agree to list the house, agree to close joint accounts. And if he won't it will be back to court to force him. Luckily the main things I really want to do for my financial security I will be able to do without his signature as long as I can show the final judgement. And I can do my estate planning to secure things for my sons.

But at least I (sort of) see the light at the end of the tunnel.

I'm feeling much stronger in myself after everyone's posts. Thanks a million, you lovely women you!

StepF absolutely still in the picture and still drinking. I am expected to have forgotten all that happened as he is “sorry”. I try to push it away for the sake of some family (grandparents) as a fall out would really upset them.

I don’t think DP has a drinking problem at all. He rarely drinks at home, and he doesn’t go out all too often. When he does it’s usually for a couple. He occasionally likes to go out and let loose a bit, but he is happy to let himself in and sleep in the spare room when he does (the abuse incident was during the night so drunk people barging in is a big trigger for me). I definitely feel it’s more my issue than him having a problem, I think my problems cause it to seem so much worse than it actually is.

@pointythingsyes DP is very understanding and accepting, but equally I don’t feel like I want to enforce restrictions due to my own problems.

i have had CBT on the NHS but it was largely useless. I had to write out the incident and re-read it to ‘overcome the fear’. Except I’ve become so emotionally distant from it to cope with it that I can read it and not feel anything. I feel as though I can tell people what happened like it was last nights Corrie. When I said this to the therapist she said it clearly doesn’t bother me! I can’t afford private therapy at the moment, but when I have tried it previously it has been equally unhelpful. I wonder if there are specialist therapists who deal with this kind of thing?

@allthepeopleso

StepF absolutely still in the picture and still drinking. I am expected to have forgotten all that happened as he is “sorry”. I try to push it away for the sake of some family (grandparents) as a fall out would really upset them.

What about them upsetting you by wanting you to forgive the unforgivable and forget the unforgettable?

Obvs you must do what feels right, but please honour your own feelings before you honour anybody else's. If you truly prefer to just 'go along to get along' remember that doing that doesn't mean you have either forgiven OR forgotten. And the day will come when the grandparents are no longer here (either physically or possibly mentally) and you can look that bastard right in the face and spit in his eye.