Support group for those affected by someone else's drinking thread 5

[pointythings]

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/alcohol_support/5473399-support-group-for-those-affected-by-someone-elses-drinking-thread-4?page=5

A new thread, because the old one is full - link to previous thread above.

These threads are a safe place for anyone who has an alcoholic in their lives. You can ask for help, you can vent, you can say whatever you need to without judgement. We will listen and support you.

Oh that is so frustrating @AcrossthePond55. If he doesn't have a licence can you not just inform the police he shouldn't be on the road?

@CharlotteByrde

The problem is catching him at it. He covers the Ring camera so I don't see his comings and goings. By the time I get a 'ping' that there's been a bank transaction, he'd already be home. I could inform the police but they can't sit at the end of the drive 24/7 and they have to 'catch him at it'.

And in other news.....got a call from the bank that the paperwork that I was assured yesterday was 'completely in order' to move and change beneficiaries on an account was actually NOT. The 'main office' that processes these changes wanted me to complete a new IDENTICAL form and have DH sign it again because 'we didn't sign it on the same date'. I nearly blew a gasket. I told them that due to his verbal abuse and anger issues I did not want to have to go to the house or be in his presence. So, I ended up going to the bank (again) and show them the judgment (that 'wasn't needed' the first time) that specifies the account is my sole property and sign and date a new form on my own, without his signature. It's all (old and new + judgment) been faxed to the 'main office'. And even now they couldn't guarantee that it would 'be enough'. FML

Is this as USA and not UK law @AcrossthePond55

does he have a time roughly when goes to the shop ?

Yes, US law and possibly different in other states.

He has no specific schedule for anything anymore. Some days he apparently doesn't leave the house at all, other days he'll go buy beer. And now that he's blocked the Ring camera I have no idea if or when or what he's doing.

At this point I'll just have to see what happens with the new papers submitted re the bank and if they 'decline' to process the change, see if I can go up the chain of command until I can get their legal dept to look at it. Under CA law, the property settlement in a legal separation is absolutely no different legally than the property settlement under a divorce. The only difference is that the parties remain married. So under law, my being awarded this account as 'sole property' means that it is mine and he has no legal 'interest' in it.

Feeling a bit sad today. Went to see ex. With dd - He’s in a right state. Falling over. Couldn’t get up from sofa. Mumbling and nodding off to sleep on the sofa

flat was a shit hole.

he hadn’t drunk today but obv had maybe thur /fri as that smell again - that wasn’t there last week when saw him and before he had his uc

stayed not even an hour as could tell dd didn’t want to be there

it’s so hard to know what to do for the best. She loves him. I get that. He’s her dad. But he’s a shell of the man I fell deeply in love with. Who made me so happy and he’s not that man anymore.

do I stop visits ? It’s like an hour a week.

I honestly don’t know how much more his body can take 😢

I think you have to be guided by your DD. What does she want? Continue, but very short visits? Less frequent visits? Seeing her dad is supposed to be for her benefit, not his.

It varies. Sometimes she will say she doesn’t want to go but when there enjoys seeing him

but at home later today she said she didn’t went to see him - she said less not never - but we go for like an hour a week. So do I do every other week ?

or just don’t go when I know he’s has uc as he’s def better /she’s happier when he’s poor so sober

like last week. We went to the park. Yes he didn’t do much. Just sat on the bench and I pushed her on swings etc - but was a nice few hours

im trying to give her happy memories for when he won’t be here as sometimes I think he won’t last 6mths - but then days like this can’t be healthy for her

it’s so hard to know what to do for the best. I say to her that as a mummy my job is to love and protect her and make sure she is safe

am I crossing that line

Honestly? I think timing it for when he hasn't got money would be a completely sensible thing for you to do. At least you are then shielding her from 'drunk him', and she's going to get the best of him that's possible, which isn't a lot.

I’m sorry it was a tough day @Penguinsandspaniels.

I think it sounds wise to follow DD’s lead and also time it around when you know he doesn’t have funds and can’t drink. After Ex’s spiral began after first couple of relapses post rehab, my Ex’s DDs were asked by school nurture lead/ mum/ social worker, they eventually revealed in their own way that they didn’t like seeing Ex when he was ‘strange’/ different/ sad. They basically didn’t want to see him when he was under the influence. Unfortunately he doesn’t have any sober periods like your Ex. He’s physically dependent and drinking around the clock, withdrawals over night. So he hasn’t seen them in more than a year now.

I, like you, wonder how much more Ex’s body can take. Often find myself googling it. No set answer.

i absolutely hate addiction for what it does to a person’s mind and body, and what it takes from the people who loved/ love them.

He only has sober periods as runs out of money as doesn’t work

I think I need to avoid the week after he gets uc don’t I

tho how do o then tell him not coming

do i lie and say dd is dd is feeling poorly and she can FaceTime him later

if I say im not coming as he would have had a drink he will say im not drinking so stale mate

fuck this parenting is hard with addiction

You could either say DD not well or ask for a negative breathalyser to be sent over WhatsApp before you leave? Tricky though. Ex never accepted that his girls could tell when he wasn’t sober/ mentally well, and his eldest definitely could and it would make her anxious and worried about him. That wasn’t healthy for them. I went into bat for his ex wife a couple of times to try and get him to see that she was right to put his daughters emotional wellbeing first and put conditions on his contact with them, he of course made it all about him and his needs and no one understanding what addicts need. So I guess that is a very long way around of saying do whichever version is lowest conflict for you.

Thank you

@Penguinsandspaniels

I agree with the others about letting DD lead the way. If you didn't mention it, would she ask to see him? If not, I wouldn't mention anything and wait for her to ask. If she does ask and it's the 'UC time of the month' I'd tell her that he was ill and not up to having company. It's not a 'real lie', is it? Alcoholism is a sickness after all.

I have to admit I'm not in a very charitable mood today when it comes to 'those men' (our DHs, exes, etc) and their drinking. So as far as your ex goes, he sees DD when it's right for her. And that determination is for you to make, not him. If it's 'his day' but you believe from speaking to him by phone that he's worse for wear or 'recovering' from a drinking bout, then he has forfeited any right to see her, no matter what he thinks or says.

And no, don't lie to him. Why should you lie? There's no need. You tell him you aren't coming because it's obvious he's been drinking. And if he says he hasn't been, well, you know the truth. So you don't argue, you simply say "I won't argue about it. We aren't coming and that's final. We'll see how you are next week". Check and mate.

@Nogoodusername

I, like you, wonder how much more Ex’s body can take. Often find myself googling it. No set answer.

I've stopped googling and pretty much stopped wondering. I guess I finally figured what's the point? It either will or won't happen in God's own good time so there's no point in me trying to figure it out.

And as I type this he's on his way once again to the ER. This time because he 'wants to stop drinking'. I've stopped speculating about that, too. He either will or won't.

@AcrossthePond55 and this is why I always, always, always tell people like you to not beat themselves up about wishing their alcoholic other halves dead. Because under our circumstances, those thoughts are normal, rational and reasonable.

Sending strength vibes to all of you who are still in the thick of it.

So, DH's trip to the ER lasted about 4 hours before he left (I assume AMA). I think that's a new record for him. They called me at about 1 hr in that he wanted to leave and I thought I'd talked him into staying overnight. Apparently not.

He didn't set a record for fastest trip to buy alcohol though, that is about 20 mins. I think it was an hour this time.

I think my emotions when he got home were a combination of chagrin and tired amusement. Today I just feel a sense of 'whatever'.

I'm dropping the dog off with my son later and heading up into the Sierras to spend time with some cousins who are staying in a cabin there. Should be a wonderful time, I haven't seen them in years.

I hope you have a lovely time with your cousins, surrounded by peace and nature.

@AcrossthePond55dh took his self to a&e? What’s ama ? And then left again after 4hrs and went to buy drink

@pointythings I almost fear the day he dies as I will have to dd feeling and emotions to consider

but I think there will be relief as well as he isn’t the man I met fell in love with and married

@Penguinsandspaniels

He called 911 (= 999) saying he was 'feeling so sick'. When the responders got there as usual he said he felt fine. They did the 'routine questions' (symptoms, suicidal ideation etc) and to the question "Do you want to stop drinking?" he replied "Yes" which ended up in a voluntary transport to the ER for 'treatment' (ie sobering up) and a meeting with a social worker to discuss rehab per normal procedures. As often happens, once he gets there he wants to leave, they think he needs to stay. Under the law they can't keep him against his will unless he meets "harm self or others" criteria, which he didn't. So in these cases they refuse to sign discharge papers and the person has to sign themselves out Against Medical Advice (AMA). This means that he's been advised to stay and chooses to leave and releases the hospital from any legal actions should he injure himself or others or should he die because they did not treat him.

TBH, I think he calls them because he's lonely and can't bear his own company. I'm sure he does feel 'sick' (nausea and weakness) but it's either from drinking too much or the lack of drinking rather than an actual 'medical emergency' which is what 911 is for. I really have to admire the responders. They're from our small local (rural) fire station so they've all been to the house many times before. Yet they are unfailingly kind yet firm with him, true professionals. And they are always kind to me too and never make me feel like I should 'be there'.

And yes, to the local 'little store' soon afterwards. Also par for the course.

I don't even bother to tell my sons anymore about these ER trips. I've told them that I will only let them know if he is actually admitted for a serious medical issue. They agree.

@Penguinsandspaniels you will handle your grief and your DD's grief. I speak from experience here. If it happens while she is still young, there is specialist bereavement counselling for children who have lost a parent that you will be able to access. You will also need to access counselling for yourself. Living like this does damage.

Ultimately it will take time to recover. It's almost 8 years since my husband died and last Christmas, DC and I took a massive step forward by going through the loft where he had all his stuff - it brought back a lot of lost memories for the DC, ones which had been buried under all the negative stuff. It was very healing for them to be able to recall the times when he was a good, loving father. None of this is ever easy, but you will get through it.

Yes @pointythings think you are the only one here whose dh did die

where most of ours are on the edge

im not sure uk 999 would take in if said want to stop drinking

tho we have nhs. Does it cost him each visit

There's another here whose husband died, but the circumstances were very different there.

It's incredibly hard watching someone basically drink themselves to death. My husband really spiralled after he was made to move out of the family home.

I'm thankful every day that I didn't see the same thing happening to my mum - she was living in the Netherlands and my Dsis (also in the UK) and I were in pretty much daily contact with her carers for the last year or so, but we weren't there day to day - it wasn't possible and in any case she wouldn't have allowed it. She had capacity right up to the last three months or so.

When we heard the news of her death, the first thing we both felt was relief.

Yes ex has got worse since I kicked him out We all hoped it would have been a wake up call and hit rock bottom and stop /cut down but I kinda thought would go the other way

and he did as no one to nag him to stop drinking and could drink at 7am if wanted to and pass out all day etc

I thought that too, for about 6 weeks. It lasted until the day I came round to help him with something and deliver some post, and saw some empty cider cans on the counter. That was when I knew I had 100% done the right thing.

They do tend to spiral once they lose the anchors of home and family. But that doesn't mean moving them out is the wrong thing to do - it's about protecting yourself and your DC. There comes a time when you have to make the hard choice of staying in your relationship and continuing to enable your alcoholic, or prioritising yourself, your kids and your own life. Option 2 is always, always the sensible one.

I know I’ve done the right thing. If nothing else for dd. We have a happy house. Laughter

but I am sad it turned out like this as I did love him. He looked so old and pitiful - he looks older then my dad who is almost 90 and 30yrs older then ex

but even now he lies about stupid stuff - I cant believe a word he says - that chat we had when he came out of Hosp meant bugger all - not even 3w later and back to drinking

My DH is dead and while it was a huge relief for me at the time, it has not be an easy thing for my children to cope with. There are such complex emotions around the death of an alcoholic - guilt and anger and grief and relief- and counselling is vital. I failed to get any for myself and the counselling my children received didn't often meet their needs. The fall-out has been long lasting. But, and it is a huge but, I will always believe I did the right thing in separating. Yes, he crash landed, but he was falling while he was with me, and nothing I tried helped.