Support group for those affected by someone else's drinking thread 5

[pointythings]

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/alcohol_support/5473399-support-group-for-those-affected-by-someone-elses-drinking-thread-4?page=5

A new thread, because the old one is full - link to previous thread above.

These threads are a safe place for anyone who has an alcoholic in their lives. You can ask for help, you can vent, you can say whatever you need to without judgement. We will listen and support you.

Aaaaaannnndddd....he's off the wagon. At least I'm 99% sure he is.

Not that he's called and told me anything. But I know he went to a petrol station and the charge amount is what a 12 pack costs. It certainly wasn't enough for a tank of fuel.

My boys and I can't decide who won the 'bet'. I said no one did. I bet he'd last til yesterday or today, but I amended it after court to 'when he gets the papers', so I lose. They bet he'd start in again by Tuesday, but they've been changing it to 'today' every day. I said you can't hedge your bets like that. (I suppose that's a bit of gallows humour)

It's funny, but emotionally I'm just glad that it wasn't getting the papers that started him drinking again. I would have felt guilty about that.

@AcrossthePond55 it was clearly going to happen and black humour helps us protect ourselves to an extent. Remember that receiving the papers would just have been a convenient excuse. It will never be your fault that he chooses to drink.

Thanks for the reminder. And you're right, it is always his fault if he chooses to resort to alcohol when he doesn't get what he wants. Right now, I'm sure it's my refusal to give the dog back as well as my own refusal to return (despite the health hazards in the house). But if it wasn't that, it would be something else. He just can't deal with the word 'No'.

It isn't anything you do or don't do. He is an alcoholic and his need for drink trumps everything.

im sorry @AcrossthePond55, even when we are 99.9% sure they will drink, our poor hopeful hearts pray this time he won’t…. Dark humour is the best way to deal with this for sure 👍 I remember trying to explain (justify) to my lads why I stayed… he had a shit childhood, his ex wife cheated, these and many others are reasons why he drinks… my 33 year old nodded then said oh I’ve thought of another reason mum - because he’s awake ! 🙄
You and the DC seem to be looking after each other , that relationship deserves your attention, not the one with him, especially if he’s drinking x

Have to laugh or we will cry and done enough of that

it should just help you know you have done the right thing and good your sons understand that as well. Guess as adults they can see the bigger picture

but yes course we wish things are different. But they sadly aren’t

and why we are all in this group

@AcrossthePond55 I am glad you have your sons and your black humour to keep you going. Sometimes hope is a real cow.

Hi, I have posted about my (not) DH before. He has been drinking too much for years but has got much worse over the last 3. He has been brought home by the police and others when incapable. Fell down stairs recently and injured himself. Fell over again today and smashed his face up. I am away so my DS had to administer first aid. I have talked to him about his drinking but he has effectively said he likes it, and I' m controlling, not affectionate enough blah blah. I know I can't stop him drinking but find myself yelling at him. Not good for either of us. Makes me very stressed. I am usually very easy going. Feel I have let my kids down (they are young adults, only 1 lives at home.)
Feel my only option is divorce. Part of me thinks that might make him stop, but the realistic part thinks not. His mother was an alcoholic and his siblings have alcohol issues.
Grateful for any words of wisdom

Hi, @fumanchu and welcome to the most supportive corner of Mumsnet.

I don't have any words of wisdom for you but these: you are correct. Divorce is your only option if you want your life back. You are living with a man who has a strong family history of alcohol abuse, who is in complete denial that he has a problem and who blames you for everything that is wrong in his life. It's the full trifecta. I don't often say divorce straight away, but this time I am saying exactly that.

Get your ducks lined up and get out. You don't have to worry about your children, so get on with protecting yourself. The divorce process is incredibly tough, but once you are out on the other side you will realise how bad things were and how good things are now.

@fumanchu divorce is the only
option as you aren’t happy and he didn’t think he has a problem

nothing will make them stop till they want to

I thought dh losing his

home
family
marriage
seeing dd daily
job
van as no money
health due to drinking

would be rock bottom and stop

but nope

living on own meant he could drink as much as he wants , when he wants with no one moaning /controlling him

Leave @fumanchu. The chances are he isn't going to stop whether you stay or go. Once you're away from him and the stress has lifted, you'll realise how much you've put up with for so long and how great it feels to be free of it all.

Thank you all, you are right, it's very helpful to have outside perspectives. My son told me a couple of years ago I should divorce him. My daughter, who no longer lives at home, is worried he would become her responsibility. This is what they do, cause problems and stress for others. I must put my hard hat on and go through with it.

@CharlotteByrde @pointythings @zeroclucksgiven @Penguinsandspaniels

Thanks, you lovely women you! I've shaken off that stupid cow known as 'hopes'. So I'm pretty much back in the 'real world' now. I've set myself the mental task of going over the settlement and making a 'to do' list as I'll be the one who has to facilitate everything.

Also researching exactly what it is I will be able to do without his signature as I'd like to do as much as I can without having to deal with him as I don't see him being cooperative. There may be more than I can do about joint accounts and the vehicles without his signature than I thought.

Obvs can't sell the house without him signing with the agent, but the settlement as I requested it gives me a BIG carrot to dangle in front of him to get him to agree. As it's written his share of some other assets comes out of the house sale with him getting 50% of the profit plus an amount equal to half the value of the other assets from my share. My attorney thought that wouldn't fly with the judge, but it did!! So I keep the other assets 'intact' as my sole property and he gets the amount he's due from them when the house sells. It all comes out in the wash, financially. But if he wants his money, he'll have to agree to sell. If he still refuses, it's back to court for a judge to 'sign for him'. And you can bet I'll be claiming for legal expenses on that!

Gosh, that last sounds like I'm getting my mojo back!

Your concerns about your daughter are valid, but her feelings are hers to manage. She should seek support in order to set her boundaries - she is no more obliged to care for this man than you are. You h ave every right to leave and live your own life; your husband is an adult who is responsible for the choices he makes. You may need to be firm with your daughter and instil in her the belief that she is not responsible for his care if you leave.

@fumanchu I can understand you would worry about that, but just make it clear to your daughter that she will not be helping her dad if she tries to protect him from the consequences of his terrible choices. He is a grown man, not a child who needs looking after. Perhaps she'd find a group for families of alcoholics, like Alanon or SMART, useful?

@fumanchu

Welcome to our club. I echo PPs, it's time you put yourself and your happiness first. Your son has your back and your DD will have your back once you explain that her dad is no more her responsibility that he is yours.

Just start quietly planning your exit strategy, perhaps don't discuss that with DD (or your son if you think he might tell her). Once you have your plans set and you are ready to execute them, then talk to her about what you're doing and why her father is not her responsibility and that it's OK for her to say 'No' if he tries to make himself her responsibility.

Both of my sons have disowned their dad over his drinking and the way he's treated me. DS2 has gone completely NC and blocked him everywhere. DS1 hasn't blocked him but won't answer calls or texts, he refuses to engage. To hear esDH (estrangedDH, we're separated not divorced) tell it he was Father of the Year who has two ungrateful sons.

I know I can't stop him drinking but find myself yelling at him.

I did this too. Chances are we all did at one time or another. But we may as well have been yelling at a brick wall. Best to save your breath to cool your porridge. Use that frustration to make yourself see a solicitor. Find out what divorce may mean for you.

We'll be here for you through whatever path you choose.

nothing wrong with hope @AcrossthePond55 as long as it’s not you who is getting hurt /upset when it goes tits up

so even if he says no. The judge will make him sign /agree

@fumanchu ex dh has older sons who don’t see /speak to him due to his behaviour /drinking

many times I yelled at him that he was destroying our marriage /family/home but made no difference

@Penguinsandspaniels

nothing wrong with hope as long as it’s not you who is getting hurt /upset when it goes tits up

I wouldn't say I get hurt or upset. I think it's more a feeling of 'inevitable disappointment'. That feeling you get when something happens that you knew would happen but you'd tried to convince yourself it might not.

I will admit that yesterday was pretty peaceful even though the reason for it was not a 'good' one. Still no word from him, but it's only 7.30am here.

In other news I managed to get my 'To Do' list done and some research accomplished. Now just have to wait until the final judgement gets uploaded and emailed to me. Everything 'legal' in CA family law is pretty much all done electronically these days.

Hi everyone.

Just checking in to say I am REALLY struggling having got pulled back into the Ex train by his friends to try and talk some sense into him about his legal woes. I hadn’t spoken to him for 6 months. I got emails every now and again - some rude, some critical, some updates, some positive, some woe - but I hadn’t heard his voice or actually had a conversation with him.

He is worse than ever. He’ll confess to physical dependency so definitely 30 units per day, he’s back on coke which he hadn’t touched in a year, but my god he just isn’t all there anymore: so much ranting (normal) but also this weird kind of talking to himself outloud commentary where he is answering himself back.

I am back to feeling shocked and just horrified at the toll addiction takes. This was a man I loved and who was a fairly functional/ masking fairly successfully alcoholic up until about three years ago, maybe even a bit more recently than that, had his kids 55/45 as recently as two years ago.

I know I can’t save him. I tried and it nearly destroyed me. But a demented part of me wants to try and save him again in some ways because I am just so horrified that this could be it. How can someone lose everything that was important to them in life including their physical health and mental faculties. It feels unreal. I know he is ‘gone’ it’s been too long and he has relapsed too quickly too many times (he’s never managed 90 days post rehab, once a good 8 weeks but other then that it was 3 weeks, 1 week, couple of days. and even straight into a pub). But I don’t want him to be, because it is just such a waste of a life and he leaves so much pain and devastation in his path for those that love/loved him.

I’m so mad at myself for agreeing to speak to him and try and get him to where he needs to be all week, I’m back having to grieve again when I had done so well with my own recovery over the past six months. I suppose at least I don’t have a trauma build up this time, so it’s ‘just’ the shock at his state and the sadness about the wasted life again? It will be quicker, won’t it?

@Nogoodusername once you are ready to step away and back into your personal boundaries of safety - yes, it will be quicker. You've done it before, you know the drill. You're going to need an extra layer of 'no' for the people who dragged you into this again because they will try again - work hard at that. Do not care about what they think. Build your walls and only open the door on your own terms. You can do it.

And don't beat yourself up about getting sucked in again. That will help nothing. Sort the problem, learn from what happened, job done.

</tough love>

Very interesting post from @Nogoodusername about friends trying to get you involved again. My BIL phoned me and suggested a family intervention after the latest incident. I said I didn't want to do that as I don't think it would work, I do not believe he would accept going to rehab or any help at all. Also, I feel BIL is pushing responsibility on to me.
Has anyone tried an intervention?

A family in my RL support group tried an intervention. The person in question was persuaded to go into rehab. They went, discharged themselves early, were back drinking within 6 weeks and were dead 6 weeks after that.

It doesn't work. An alcoholic will only stop when they are ready to stop.

Hi @fumanchu. I don’t think an intervention as per the kind you see on US tv shows would have worked for ex. If he felt ganged up on, he came out fighting. We all tried to talk to him individually mainly, but on a few occasions a friend of his and I spoke to him together.

His first rehab stint was pretty much of his own accord. His first wife had left him on an ultimatum/ boundary of ‘seek help or I am not coming back’. He didn’t go. He eventually went while we were together, but it wasn’t something I had pushed, I had pushed engagement with local drug and alcohol support services where he had a key worker who I hoped would guide him. That service was grindingly slow, he’s probably still on their wait list for a detox years later!! He was doing AA and a friend there told him that rehab had saved his life and for whatever reason, after a few further weeks of crisis, he decided to try it.

The problem with the first rehab attempt is that basically I think he thought it would cure him magically. With addiction, the really hard work is in the weeks post discharge from rehab - learning to deal with stress, anxiety and depression (and neurodivergence in his case) without numbing it all out with alcohol. Facing the havoc that addiction had caused to your life (and at that stage, his was still quite good - some family tension, he was still in the process of divorce, but he did still have a job and his own rental home and his kids living with him on a 45/55 basis). Surfing the urge of cravings etc. Rehab doesn’t magically fix that and it was too hard for Ex and he relapsed. From there he basically declared rehab doesn’t work (although he tried it again a few times) and here we are years later.

Ex once walked out of a 28 day programme (the only time he did as long as 28 days) straight to the pub. I can’t even remember what the excuse was that time. It was an early one, so again where his life was a lot less wrecked than it was by the time of his last attempt.

No idea and no words really other than to agree with @pointythings that they will only stop when they want to stop. When the pain of working on change is less than the pain of living life like they are. Ex isn’t there; which is madness when I think that pretty much the only thing left for him to lose right now is becoming homeless, and that won’t happen as there are two parental properties available to him.

@Nogoodusername. We can’t save them. As much as we want to. We can’t

sorry struggling esp as had no contact for 6mth.

we all loved our addicts as it is hard seeing them destroy theirselves

they will stop drinking if they want to

but scant they don’t