Fuck. Russian bomb has hit Poland.

Woah, looks like I missed some stuff.

It's great to see there are talks about processes to prevent accidental escalations happening driven by NATO. This is the exact type of level headed experience needed in times like yesterday.

Ukraine are very clearly not accepting responsibility for this, and have made no attempt to apologise to Poland for the loss of life

Again, you do not know this - private conversations between Ukraine and Poland may have occurred.

Begining to wonder now about paid having looked at the first posts more closely:

PaidthepiperTuneismine · Yesterday 19:14

It's far more likely to be Western propaganda to justify intervention by NATO. It will mean NATO war though

Agree.

It is entirely within normal protocol, particularly in loaded and very serious war situations, that an apology is made in public, at the very least a public acknowledgement.

We can hear, and have heard absolutely nothing at all from Ukraine.

Love the fact the news channels are literally talking about anything BUT the elephant in the collective room.

and have made no attempt to apologise to Poland for the loss of life

Yet again, you have no idea that they have not apologised, it may have been private, in conversation - as many conversations between countries are.

Stop claiming things when you have zero evidence for them. You are posting shite continually with zero knowledge of what is actually happening.

Strangely Zelensky is doubling down on denial. He doesn't look well but the strain on him must be absolutely horrendous and unremitting.

www.ft.com/content/d417ea8f-62ee-4bb8-966b-a85a98fc6b3a

“If, God forbid, some [missile] debris killed these people, we have to apologise,” he said. “But, sorry, first [I want] an investigation, access, the data you have — we want to have this.”

Responding to Zelensky’s comments, a diplomat from a Nato country in Kyiv told the Financial Times: “This is getting ridiculous. The Ukrainians are destroying [our] confidence in them. Nobody is blaming Ukraine and they are openly lying. This is more destructive than the missile.”

Yep. He just wants nato involved and ww3. No care for the truth or being honest here. He is war hungry.

How is he war hungry? The Russians invaded Ukraine, not the other way round.

The simple answer is “ Othering”.
Afghans, Syrians are far away and culturally different.
The fact that we all bleed red and suffer anguish when we lose a loved one doesn’t seem to register-
It’s how humans as a species seem to be.
Tribal.
I read “All Quiet on the Western Front” and felt anger towards the Enemy-
But the enemy was British.. A British bombardment.

Reading AQOWF made me see for the first time ( as a young person) how “ The Enemy” was just as human as us.

Just like the US can tell that the missiles were not fired from Russia, the US knows from where in Ukraine the missiles were fired and if they were truly errant air defence missiles fired to shoot down Russian missiles given all the satellites that are aimed at Ukraine and Russia and the surroundings at the moment.

Or was this actually a provocation intended to force NATO into the war? If so, it almost worked. The early statements by Poland and Ukraine were consistent with the provocation theory. Whatever the situation NATO want to move on and is briefing against Zelensky in this respect. The FT wouldn't have published that comment without a lot of careful thought and all the MSM are receptive to intelligence messaging where appropriate.

You need to differentiate between leadership and those with any of the recognised forms of power and those, who due to those powers, are in the recognised forms of servitude.

Look at any autocracy and that is where you will find the greatest evil.

They say the first casualty of war is truth Anne Morelli has summarized and systematized the contents of Arthur Ponsonby's classic on war propaganda in "ten commandments of propaganda", which constitute 10 of the essential techniques of propaganda.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falsehood_in_War-Time

We do not want war.
The enemy alone is to be blamed for the war.
The enemy is inherently evil, resembling the devil.
We defend a noble cause, not our own interest.
The enemy commits atrocities on purpose; our mishaps are involuntary.
The enemy uses illegal weapons.
We suffer small losses, those of the enemy are enormous.
Artists and intellectuals back our cause.
Our cause is holy, it has a sacred character.
Whoever doubts our propaganda, is a traitor.

V true. I admire the Ukrainians strength and courage but that doesn’t mean I don’t feel sorry for Russian males mobilised and forced to go and fight Ukraine and not only that with poor equipment like lambs to slaughter. It is Putin and his acolytes who are responsible.

Also the Russian people are fed so much propaganda (am not naive enough to think we don’t get it too but theirs is off the scale) and are encouraged to think the West want to invade them and Ukraine is a rogue state. War is awful but I think sadly Ukraine has no choice but to fight back and do the best they can in defeating them. The costs are high but their freedom is at stake.

Well I just thought a nuke had hit with the thunder and lightning here then 😱😱

If Hollywood is anything to go by it might look something like this (though this is a meteor and metaphor for global warming !) - Don't Look Up.

Ahh global warming
Another think just lurking round the corner to kill us
Because coronavirus putin and a recession just isn't enough

Came across the term 'misery wankers' on another thread I have sequestered it for my own ends. Sometimes ignorance is indeed bliss😁

www.telelib.com/authors/O/OrwellGeorge/prose/NineteenEightyFour/part1sec7.html

What FT article are you taking about?

This one I posted up thread

www.ft.com/content/d417ea8f-62ee-4bb8-966b-a85a98fc6b3a

“If, God forbid, some [missile] debris killed these people, we have to apologise,” he said. “But, sorry, first [I want] an investigation, access, the data you have — we want to have this.”
Responding to Zelensky’s comments, a diplomat from a Nato country in Kyiv told the Financial Times: “This is getting ridiculous. The Ukrainians are destroying [our] confidence in them. Nobody is blaming Ukraine and they are openly lying. This is more destructive than the missile.”

@vera99 so true. If it's not all this disastrous stuff out to get us it will be something like heart disease 😂😂worrying is futile

My mum used to say don't borrow worry from tomorrow and then went onto worry. Every day above ground is a good day and when I'm no longer here well I won't need to worry about it. My dad never worried - he was in the army 1940-1945 in the Royal Signals working on comms 5 miles behind the front line in South Africa, Libya, Egypt, Italy and then finally Germany, joined when he was 23. He candidly said that they were the best years of his life better than everything else, marriage kids the lot. Why because he said every day was special and precious and the camaraderie of the brotherhood of his fellow troops was a bond like no other. That said when he saw the combat troops say in Rome on R+R he said they had a haunted 1000 yards stare look. They had seen the horror and brutality of war up close and it was an ugly terrible thing.

@vera99 and this is what horrifies me when people say 'not our war don't get involved' though- what the people of Ukraine are living through and witnessing and most of them haven't a clue about armed conflict yet there they are holding their own 9 months later against one of the supposed super powers of the world

@LikeTearsInRain

Do you really think Zelensky wants WW3

You do seem to be holding him responsible for Putin's terrorism

Why is that?