How can we increase respect for women

[Flufffluff11]

I've had a lot of chats with male friends and acquaintances about this lately.

A lot of them told me that boys are taught to disrespect girls, from many influejces, from a young age to a point where they don't see women as human.

So if a woman tries to say how life needs to be improved for women. If she tries to talk to men about feeling uncomfortable or scared on a walk alone through a town for example, men don't listen because their brain automatically thinks of the woman "as not even human" . They are also under pressure to look manly in front of each other, and some of them do this by disrespecting women in front of other men

Again, not all men. But the crime rate against women is huge. Men are not going to change, as it doesn't affect them negatively. I'm really interested in talking to other women about this.

How can we raise respect of women in society, in general?

While women are sexualised whatever they are doing there is no chance.

We are just portrayed as sexual objects no matter what and porn, the media and the fact people are just such fucking sheep and must jump on any trend or band waggon going, means that that won't change any time soon.

You only have to look at the threads about trends for everyone to walk about with their arses hanging out to students doing OF.

And yes every woman should be able to wear what they want but when we are literally conditioned to exist for the male gaze, by a misogynist media, there is no hope.

I agree, it’s bleak. I have hopefully raised my son to respect women. His father has modelled this for him with the way he treats me, talks to and about me and the way he talks about women in general. I do not know how we tackle this as a society when it seems to be ingrained in some men, and when our culture just portrays women as sex objects.

Agree that I don’t think we really can. It’s always been a big problem and it seemed like we were moving forwards and making progress - but the internet is sending us back into the dark ages.

We can! But the change needs to come from women not men.

As women have been beat down mentally by men for so long, a lot of women don't believe in themselves.

We need to strengthen ourselves as a group

I have an 18yo son. I've raised him by myself since the age of 2. He has seen me work full time while having care of him, and run a house.

He has seen the hours I work , and since age 8 has been expected to do his bit, gradually increasing chores to a near even split.

He knows that
a) I am more than a match for anyone else
b) I have never let him down and we work as a successful team
c) I don't drink, smoke etc. I manage my finances, health, diet, work, DIY successfully.
d) If he ever came out with any Andrew Tate style shit, I'd have his ears off
e) If I ever see him treat a girl disrespectfully, he won't be able to count on my unquestioning support.

I love him and have raised him to be a decent human being but if he behaves like a shit, he can expect to get treated like one.

Only ever on MN do I read this utter nonsense.

We raise boys to respect people in the same way that we raise girls to respect people.

Any male or female who hasn’t been raised to respect others ends up very lonely!

Utter nonsense? Oh Dear.

Crime against women is at such a high rate in the UK that it has been described as a national emergency.

In response: The UK Government has just launched classes in schools, which aims to teach boys to respect girls

I have 2 older teenage daughters and despair of the world for them sometimes - all we can do is empower them as much as possible by being good role models- in the way we talk about ourselves and other women, the way we allow ourselves to be treated, the way we speak to them about their choices. And our sons of course!

For example I never, ever talk about my weight or diet or looks in a negative way in front of my daughters, I’ve never criticised their clothing choices (apart from the occasional “won’t you be cold?”) My DH does his fair share of household chores etc.

Unfortunately both of them have already experienced unwanted comments from men - being catcalled in the street, spoken to inappropriately by much older men while working as a waitress etc - all I can do is equip them with the confidence to stand up for themselves, walk away and keep themselves safe.

Anyone who thinks this is ‘utter nonsense’ has no idea what’s actually going on (or is a man)!

And yet they recently voted against classifying misogyny as a hate crime with the weedy excuse that it was not in everyone's best interests.

I have been thinking about this a bit recently OP, and I think one way to do it is to reframe what being a Real Man is. At the moment, the biggest role models are Andre Tate types who teach boys that to be a 'real man' you have to put women down, be the boss, flash cash. There need to be powerful, charismatic men with strong social media presence, who say that to be a real man you need to be heroic - to use your physical strength to help others and contribute to society, to use your bravery to stand up for fairness and kindness, not be afraid to speak out against prejudice. When it is cool and considered masculine to be strong and supportive of others, brave to fight for justice for others, and when self-seeking wieners are seen to be needy, greedy, insecure losers, then I think misogyny will start to get diluted.

How do you suggest we demand respect from men? If the change needs to come from us which it doesn’t we could have the upmost respect for ourselves hold
Ourselves well and do all the right things and still
men will come along and disrespect us for a number of reasons. You told us we need to try change something women can’t alone do this men need to be held accountable.

I don’t think it’s helped that for many years society has devalued much of what was traditionally associated with women, the unpaid labour they do, the traditional jobs women occupied etc, so to have real respect a woman has to occupy a role traditionally done by men, be an engineer, a scientist, doctor etc, of course such women should be respected but so should the nursery nurses that care for our children, the people that cook our children’s school dinners, the mother caring for her children full
time etc

Oh, good. More things for women to be responsible for.

It is bleak, it seems like a large proportion of men disrespect women. There are cases where they protect them though. A dude in a club when I was younger was saying lewd comments and touching me and my female friends bums in a club. Our male friends stuck up for us. It was only afterwards (when I opened my friend's door to thank him and see how he was) that I realised he has taken a punch to defend us! A proper black eye.

But yeah, I like to think the rapers/beaters/disrespectors etc are in the minimum, but the truth is who knows. You never really know a person. And the same men who loudly shout about defending women may well be the same ones abusing them in private.

Yes of course men need to be held accountable.

But I don't see women doing much anywhere to improve things for women in the UK. I think this is because we have become weakened as a group. We need to support each other (women) more

The biggest change comes when the oppressed people start fighting back,

as the people that are actually in power have no desire to change. They are happy with things as they are

I agree with you @GoodGirlFaith I think this is utter nonsense. You start by respecting yourself which prompts others to respect you. Plenty of girls, boys, women, men act in a way that shows lack of self-respect and unsurprisingly they don't get treated kindly. It's not about gender. I can't help you if you don't help yourself.

Sigh. Yes of course women need to take some responsibility in standing up for ourselves and our rights. What are you doing?

Looking at a worldwide impact, I've started donating to the Malala fund recently. she aims to get girls more access into education.

I'm trying to look at more UK specific things to do

I have an idea but happy for people to shoot holes in it!

We often hear of people saying young men/teenagers lack male role models around them and the answer if often mentoring schemes where older men volunteer. I was wondering if it’s ever been tried matching young boys/teenagers to older women for mentoring support?

My thinking is boys could then hear of their life experiences - good and bad - and maybe see for themselves that what they are being told about women is untrue and potentially dangerous.

I dont know .Its very simplistic ,I realise.

I strongly disagree. The impetus needs to come from men. The decent ones need to call out the behaviour wherever they see it.

It should but it won't. And it has not.

People in power have less of a drive to change the situation, as it would mean giving up power.

My male acquaintance said to me a while ago "men enjoy the power that they have over women. Would you give up that power if you had it. Of course you wouldn't. "

The real change will come from women.

I have always felt respected by the men around me. Family, friends, men in my workplace. I have come across the odd misogynist, but the reality for women you describe is not something I personally recognise. I am not saying it doesn’t exist, but also that my reality exist.
I have 2 young adult sons. They are respectful to women as that’s what they see around them. As a mother, I have taught them things they might not consider like cross the road if you see a single woman walking down the street in the dark. That’s what my father taught my brothers too.

It has to come from women because why would men as a group fight to change things that work very well for them?

We need to support other women. One of the big things is relationships. So many women are in awful relationships. Change would happen faster than you think if the only men that could get a female partner were good and decent ones. At the moment it doesnt seem to matter how much of a bastard a man is, he will never be short of women.

However, any change we try to make puts us at risk. Saying no to men can be dangerous.

I am a secondary school teacher. The majority of secondary school teachers are women, lots of them "mum" age and many actual mums.

The behaviour of some male teenage students to female teachers (as well as to the girls they're educated with) is so, so, awful.

I've recently changed job to sixth form teaching as I couldn't tolerate it any longer.

So it's certainly not that boys aren't exposed to older women. They aren't interested in our life experiences. They just think we're "Karens".

What am I doing? Nothing. I'm too tired from all the other shit I'm dealing with.

I don't have the energy to be trying to force a group of people to respect me.

What change though? Not living with them and not reproducing? I mean it's an idea.