How can we increase respect for women

[Flufffluff11]

I've had a lot of chats with male friends and acquaintances about this lately.

A lot of them told me that boys are taught to disrespect girls, from many influejces, from a young age to a point where they don't see women as human.

So if a woman tries to say how life needs to be improved for women. If she tries to talk to men about feeling uncomfortable or scared on a walk alone through a town for example, men don't listen because their brain automatically thinks of the woman "as not even human" . They are also under pressure to look manly in front of each other, and some of them do this by disrespecting women in front of other men

Again, not all men. But the crime rate against women is huge. Men are not going to change, as it doesn't affect them negatively. I'm really interested in talking to other women about this.

How can we raise respect of women in society, in general?

Read your original post to remind yourself what they have told you and if you can’t think of any questions for them then you’re part of the problem.

I don't think that they don't realise, I think that they don't think about it at all as it doesn't happen to them.

My male colleague recently told me he likes going out for a run in the dark as it is more quiet. I said 'oh I wish I could do that'. He said 'why can't you'.

Any time that I've told men that I've been shouted at by other men on the street. They've all replied 'oh really? I don't see that happening'

No I wrote 'what do you want me to ask them specifically' as you were very vague about what you wanted me to ask them.

I asked to you clarify what you were referring to, as I may have already asked them it.

I also think women disrespect women too often, so when our boys also see their own mums doing that why would they respect women.

We need to stand for less shit from men, but also give less shit to women. Stop having affairs with married men, stop body shaming people in magazines, stop judging famous people for marrying a prince, just stop the negative shit.

Yes, that makes sense. You would think common sense would prevail wouldn't you? I know it does with some men, but it seems to be a minority. As pps have also pointed out, do we really know how our son's act when out with their friends? With the best parenting in the world, they still have to navigate a misogynistic toxic masculinity world.

Yes be nicer and kinder to other women. Support women. Value women

I think the viciousness from women to other women that we can sometimes see, (ive seen a lot of female on female bullying in workplaces) is because women have also been taught by the patriarchal system to devalue women.

We all need to see the value of women.

My sons and adult grandsons know I'm a strong independent woman. They don't disrespect me. 🤷‍♀️

I agree. Most men I've come across in life have been respectful of women including socially, family, romantically, professionally etc. Obviously I've met some disrespectful men and some awful men but they've been in the minority.

Only on MN have I heard the belief all men routinely harass/assault women, watch porn, lust after young girls, are generally shit people you're better off single etc etc

I'm not saying some men aren't like that, it's just I've not come across many.

It's interesting. I think the view of a man often presented in these threads is of some kind of cross between a white thug in a balaclava and Andrew Tate, both of whom are caricatures. I used to work for a mental health charity where plenty of men who used the service were pretty desperate - lost their careers and families to addiction; were mentally vulnerable so that the wider society would prey on them, getting them to house and transport drugs etc. The streets are full of homeless men on the edge of society, or at least in pretty bad shape. I really need to ask women why they allow men in their lives at all if you hate and fear them so much. Nothing comes into my house that I hate and fear. You don't need men in person to have children. Create your own society and lock them out. If the work is not rewarded, stop doing it. If you don't want to cook and clean don't. Don't have children (like me); don't put up with bad behaviour; don't do more than your fair share. Go out and vote; go into politics; set up your own business, make your own money..do the things that do give you status and value in the eyes of the world. There is nothing stopping you except an endless whinge of whiny drivel on this site from women who want to ask if it's unreasonable when their male partner screams abuse at them and should they put up with DH siding with MIL rather than them. If you don't know the answer, there is no hope for you. Is this really about men or do you have any idea how to value yourself. No-one else will if you don't, and why should they?

Just because it’s always ‘gone on’ doesn’t mean it’s Ok.

I haven’t posted any statistics.

And, well, YOU’RE online… 🙄

Your other point is meaningless and I’m not posting hatred.

Otherwise, your post is totally meaningless to me. Nothing you say will sway my opinions, knowledge and experiences so YOU stop obsessively posting online and maybe ‘get out into the community’ to help some people (and I’m willing to bet, if you go to the right places, you’ll learn something that you don’t know).

I find it interesting how I tend to be treated with huge respect by men in my professional role and a fair level of respect when out with my husband but when I’m on my own, particularly with our children then some (definitely not all) don’t give the same vibe of respectfulness, it’s as if a woman on her own, especially with her children is the lowest of the low, London and cities in general are much worse for it and have been verbally and physically attacked by men, whereas women couldn’t be more friendly and helpful. Where I live though men and women are both generally quite friendly

Yes I've been shouted at by men on the streets in London. It's no nice. And one got very aggressive when I didn't reply

Can I politely say I don’t think many of us care about your two male friends and their opinions and views. It’s just my male friend said this he said that. So I hope you challenged them

I agree. However we have had more occasions where men have stopped to let my dcs and I across main roads (always the ones you'd stereotype wouldn't, such as trade vans etc), and more women speeding past. It hasn't been this way for us in all circumstances. I have definitely encountered disrespect infront of dh before too, such as salesmen looking at dh to make the financial decision, while treating me like I am invisible🙄

You weren't polite and I think you made a very odd point there. We are all discussing our various interactions with men on this thread.

If you don't care about mine, then I don't care about your posts either

Same here. Had very good male role models in family, i.e. father, grandfather, uncles, etc., who were all respectful to the women in the family, many of whom were "strong" women (we're a Yorkshire family!!). That rubbed off on me, I won't be a doormat for anyone, whether boyfriends, work colleagues/bosses, or in hobbies/sports nor voluntary work. I've always had self confidence not to put up with any shit from men or women right from an early age. I must give off "bugger off vibes" as I've never been cat-called, molested or otherwise chatted up by "wrong 'uns". My DH was brought up the same - very respectful to me from the day we met and he has more female friends than male friends - genuine friends I mean. We've brought DS up the same - he's loads of "platonic" female friends from school, university and work. Neither DH nor DS would dream of any kind of abuse to a woman (nor a man really either) - they know how to behave around other people. It's not rocket science!

I agree, I do believe there is truth in feminist political ideologies at a society level but at an individual level it’s far more complex than men vs women, even though of course society influences the individual. I agree women as a collective can take a much greater role is determining the boundaries. I’ve been stung myself in life, being exploited by men when I was younger by not following the advice of my grandmas who knew how important ‘self respect’ ‘choosing the right man’ and marriage etc were. We do have laws etc in place to protect women but unfortunately many women don’t learn to advocate for themselves until they get much older

Well, I care about what your male friends had to say about it - because this is a massive part of the problem: men having no idea or not understanding at all what women are facing.

I think if we just approach this with anger that they ‘don’t know’ we’re not going to achieve anything, it’s about dialogue. Just like in a marriage if you’re expecting some unicorn who holds the perfect perspective, views, does everything as you would like them to all the time you are bound to be disappointed. Sometimes you need to talk and express why you think them helping out more etc would be more fair instead of just being mad at them and sometimes you need a bit of leverage too

@Flufffluff11

Well maybe the respect classes that the governments are introducing into schools this year will improve that to a certain extent. The classes are going to focus on teaching boys to respect girls.

This is going to depend on how it is taught.
I know schools were it will be used as a hammer, which will just drive boys towards being radicalised.
Some schools will hammer this home whilst giing the boys that it should be aimed at will be praised for their good days and given treats and trips when they misbehave.

Hopefully the guidance for schools includes guidance for leadership to avoid misogyny and victim blaming school uniform guidelines (no implications that if they are insufficiently modest they are responsible for the behaviour and work ethic of boys, male members of the public and male teachers! This still happens!).

In fact I'd say that uniform should be scrapped because it is what draws focus away from learning and onto superficial appearances. This really is true as anyone whose spent long periods in European school systems as well as British uniformed schools will recognise.

There’s a lot of, “I haven’t seen it, most men are respectful to me, I think we should stop going on about it “ on here. I have respectful peers, but working in a customer-facing role, I see some awful behaviour too. I was in an emotionally abusive marriage which I left three years ago. Sadly my daughter has experienced it too. Just because it hasn’t happened to you doesn’t mean we shouldn’t support women who have or who are suffering. If it hasn’t happened to you, you are blessed, and lucky. But don’t dismiss DV and SA and the women who have been through it, and definitely don’t tell women to stop going on about it! We should, if anything, speak louder!

Shutting down the 235,000 UK-based OnlyFans "creators" would be a great start.

How high do the s/a stats need to climb before online porn is curtailed?

It would help a great deal if the press weren’t in love with tate, unfortunately they love flaunting him about. If they hadn’t, his following would be significantly smaller. But giving him airtime and page space is clearly an important priority for the british press.