Misandry and Mumsnet

[estrogone]

Is it acceptable to hate on men openly without apology? Would it be ok of it were the other way round.

As a woman and mother of sons, the attitudes and comments on MN border on hate speech and I think Mumsnet HQ should do something about it.

Is this really how we want to balance the scales?

E: spelling

First post nails it.

10th rule of misogyny: The worst thing about male violence is that it makes men look bad.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3236421-so-these-ere-rules-of-misogyny

Teach your ds not to be the sort of males that females hate.

As a dm to 2 dd, I am proactively teaching them to be wary, and assume not all men, but always men.

Why do people always say “as a mother of sons” on here to defend their misogynistic shite? I’ve got a son. I also know what misogyny looks like. Away with your goady bollocks!

You don't hate ON someone, you just hate them and yes sometimes I hate men collectively for the violence they inflict on other human beings, but especially on women and children. I say this despite having a father and brothers.

To answer the question: Yes, it’s completely acceptable to hate violent men, misogynistic men, the sexual predators, the controlling and abusive ones, most of them in fact.

I agree with you OP.
I’m neither a man nor a handmaiden.
Hating people automatically because of their sex is discrimination, and it’s seen too often on here.

I have no problem with discrimination against men.

As a feminist woman and the mother of both a son and a daughter, I think you need to learn to differentiate between “uncomfortable facts” and “hate speech”, as well as develop some empathy for the anger of women who have had so many negative experiences with men that they feel comfortable making broad negative generalizations (that in many cases are also grounded in uncomfortable facts).

Hate on? Are you American?

Examples of 'hate speech', please.

Being wary and advising caution of the sex that perpetuates the vast majority of the violence in this world is not hate, it is common sense.

I vaguely remember the question "Am I being unreasonable to hate men" being the title of one post. Was she unreasonable in her situation? I don't remember but if you're stung enough times you are going to hate that which stings you - wasps, men, whatever. You wouldn't argue against that, would you?

But generally most of the derogatory comments about men are about their behaviour, specific shitty behaviour, that posters hate. That is to say they hate what men do rather than that they are men. How is that hate speech?

Unless your view is that men have a natural propensity to behave appallingly and they can't control that, then I don't really understand what excuse you are trying to make for what they do and why you think women shouldn't post about their experiences.

1% of the population, of which about 90% are men, commit violent crimes. That means the vast majority do not.

Your completely irrelevant and confused response is noted and ignored.

If your sons are teenagers or older, ask them how they feel about the other boys/men they have to deal with in their lives. They might not like being tarred with the same brush, but you will probably find that they have quite a few negative things to say about men as well.

If you genuinely are a mother with sons I hope you are doing lots of reading on how not to raising your sons with misogynistic attitudes.

Im a mother with 3 daughters. Last weekend I had my 13 year old dd ( middle child) friends round and they were telling me what the boys in their school year are like.

I found it really upsetting tbh and then lay in bed at night quite bloody angry.

The use of snap chat gives these young children access to each other that no other generation had. Some of them had ‘boyfriends’. It seemed to be a running theme that when a boy ended the relationship the girls were inundated with snaps from their mates - essentially ‘wanting to have a go’ because they did with their mate. These young girls buying computer games ect for these lads only for the lads to laugh about it on snap chat after they have dumped them.

Young lads asking the girls if they ‘shaved’ (meaning private areas) and other deeply private questions.

This is actually part of a wider discussion on this generations kids being exposed to adult themes through social media so are much more advanced than we were ( or my elder dd generation) but with still the immaturity young people’s brains.

Of the back of the conversation I’ve had a very long chat with dd about refraining from having a boyfriend for at least the next year - as they are just not the same as her.

So whilst I GET mothers of sons being protective PLEASE make sure that your little smiley boy isn’t really growing up to have hostile views to females.

It’s around 4 percent, or one in 25 people, and they’re almost all men, so it’s more like one in every 13 or 14 men convicted of committing a violent crime in their lifetime.

Thats before you start with all the rest of the bullshit they’re not getting convicted for.

Right. Hate is doing some VERY heavy lifting and as for hate speech 🙄

Occasionally you see women posting "is it ok to hate or fear all men" and they are swamped by handmaidens telling them nOt AlL mEn!!! in breathless voices.

The vast, vast majority of anti men posts are anti one particular man, not men in general, and are then commented on by women who have been through horrible shit with an abuser and using their own experience to comment.

But even if a woman does say I hate all men, it just doesn't matter. At all. No man feels even remotely threatened, not ever, by women posting their pain and misery online. No laws are made because of it. Nothing is done about it. In fact, if someone did try to make any law restricting men in any way because they are the far more dangerous of the two sexes, the outcry from women would be deafening.

Yup, men and boys are often at great risk of violence - from other men and boys.

Yep. In this worst of all possible worlds, little girls are regularly exposed to porn in school now, they will be sitting at their desks being told they should be willing to be anally raped. Gale Dines was shouting about this a decade ago. Choking and anal rape is now considered normal by porn addicted boys. Girls are turning away from sex because they are so disgusted by what they are expected to do. I could offer stats and links, but they're easy to find for anyone who cares to do so.

Girls are at more risk than ever of violence, rape, crime and the internet has absolutely fuelled the worst possible bottom feeders in the world and given them a voice and a chance to easily find one another. The likes of Giselle Pelicot who was raped by hundreds of men while her husband kept her unconscious for example - her sadistic brute of a husband found it very easy indeed to find his fellow rapists online.

But we can't risk hurting a man's feelings by letting victims of abuse say "I hate men" now can we?

Men do post openly on the internet that they hate women OP. Have you had a stern word with them too?

I imagine she’s too sensible to do that, as while some answers so far have been quite tough, none of them approach the kind of “choke on my dick you stupid fat slag, you’d be lucky to get raped” that she could expect to be told by any bog-standard misogynist these days.

I was being sarcastic @CamillaMcCauley. We all know the sort of responses OP would get, which proves most of the replies on this thread.

Slightly conflicted here.
Agree some of the comments are unbalanced and hyperbolic (like accusing you of being a man?) - but then again women should be able to let off steam about how they have been treated by men by discussing with other women. It’s not like that threatens men - because we don’t generally abuse and mistreat them.
Have a look at Reddit etc if you want to see how men talk about women. Why should women always be kind online?
Of course a lot of men think that women having boundaries and choosing not to be with them or facilitate them is abusive. TheTate/incel types would agree.
So I don’t really care.
If it makes you feel better OP I am a thoroughly decent and kind person to everyone I meet. I have a son. I love many men. But I have firmly decided not to ever get involved with another one for my own sake and for my children. So. I don’t ‘hate’ them but I don’t want one.