A question only for those who think UK society has lost its way, in the fascist direction

[supercrone]

How long do you think this will last? And how bad will it get? I'm thinking of Weimar Germany. So let's say 1929 to 1945. But then also the post way recovery. Will a whole generation lose their best years? I can't see things getting better very fast to be honest. I think things are going to get much worse before they get better. Much much worse. What do other people think? I'm not at all interested in the views of those who think that things are getting better. You go off to your own thread. This is for the really worried among us.

@Gealach

it’s quite easy to segue between voluntarily paying a smuggler to smuggle you in and making a modern slavery claim though - just destroy your passport and claim someone took it and forced you to work in the black market that you willingly came over to work in. If you grant these trafficking claims, rather than finding a way to return these people, you just support criminality - far better to find a way to resettle people in their home country with the home country, protected from organised gangs.

It would be really great if those who actually support routes to asylum also supported some of the reforms aimed at removing some of the means of abuse / piss taking within the system, like making a modern slavery claim when you’ve already been refused asylum, then claiming family life when that fails. Rather than opposing everything. I’ve done immigration pro bono work - it rather opens your eyes to some really things that really should not go on.

I'm not at all interested in the views of those who think that things are getting better. You go off to your own thread. This is for the really worried among us.

You're not one for intelligent debate then OP?

Who do you think posts the online hate and do you think they don’t also exist in real life? Do you think they’re only pretending to hate online but are lovelykind and reasonable people in real life?

Bots aside, there are many many human posters emboldened by the growing racism and hate online and this is moving offline into real life at a frightening speed.

what we’re seeing os hyperstition in action.

is it not unusual to make a claim of modern slavery after an asylum claim? they are both separate and usually run alongside each other and you can’t self refer into the NRD. And nor would that give you a right to stay anyway. Also I can’t see how you can remove people’s right to make a claim under family life when most of the successful claims are because of a child or a partner.

i do support reform, I just don’t agree with what you are saying.

I think the answer is to increase funding and process asylum claims much quicker. This means that people don’t set up a life here and removes reasons for appeals too.

Some of it is bots amplifying messages.

but totally agree with you . It moves off line at super speed. It affects what we all think really seeing these same arguments over and over again. Seeing crime committed by foreigners being amplified all the time. It distorts reality

Would that work though? Because if you only want to chat with people like you who really believe that we are going to end up like Nazi Germany and are terrified of the future that's not going to make you feel better.

How bad is it ? Haven't been keeping up with mainstream news

@supercrone I don't think anyone would say the UK is getting better

And certainly the racism against Jewish people is a huge problem

But when you use the term fascist, I look at the government

We don't have a fascist government and we don't have anything entrenched in our system that lends itself to fascism?

@supercrone I think it is a Europe wide problem and not unique to the UK. We are slightly more tolerant.

What exactly are we talking about here ?

I’m not going to waste my time doing your research for you. If you’re interested in understanding how she made her money, I’d strongly encourage you to boot up google or any AI tool as it’s all well documented.

If we share ways to resist and fight this, then yes, actually I think that will help.

It's true that it is a problem across Europe. No doubt about that. I can't tell if the discussion is as toxic. Mumsnet gives me a talk window into the UK, I don't have that for other European countries. The US is maybe even worse. In the 1930s, right wing/fascist ideas were widespread across many countries, not just Germany. So that would be similar.

Germany is interesting in that it has both a far left and far right political split

I'm not actually seeing any ideas here on how to fight it that might really help. Labour is seen as out of touch - not wanting to talk to people with different views just reinforces that. The best hope for avoiding a right wing government is that the economy picks up, but it is not looking like there will be enough change between now and the next election for people to really notice. The Labour party abolished the benefit cap, that doesnt sit well with many potential Labour voters. Money is being wasted on trying to destroy women rights, the public dont want that either. I've had Labour party members say, IRL, that they'd rather be ideologically pure than win elections.

Labour changes or dies and we get a minority reform government.

So no. You can't explain how someone who constantly tells the story of how she came from living in a council house to being a multimillionaire with properties all over the place and place in Government in a very short space of time.

Aren't you curious?

If that’s what you took from my post it seems you can’t read. I was right not to waste any time trying to explain it to you giving your lacking powers of comprehension. Have a good day

@Lugol Angela Rayner probably is not a multi-millionaire. She was married, there is a property in Manchester in trust for her disabled child. She also has a flat with a large mortgage. She has a ministerial salary as well as her MP salary so she isnt broke. She's also picked up money from speaking engagements.

Claims she is a "multi-millionaire" are likely to be fake.

😂

I think the place in government is because she was elected as an MP? I'm not sure but I definitely heard a rumour that happened....
I think some people have tried to calculate her net worth based on her salaries over the years, book sales and property price increases since she bought them. It is very suspicious that there is no smoking gun of huge wealth or signs of income outside the obvious ones. Clearly that leaves us having to speculate and guess at how much money she actually has and what dubious sources she got it from.

That, plus the very convenient fact there is a full record of her being elected and MP and coming up through her partys hierarchy is very convenient

@Lugol

No I'm not remotely curious.
Does she really own homes all over the place?
As far as I was aware there is the former family home now held in trust for her disabled child and a flat in Brighton.
As a govt minister she may have access to a property in London but she will not own that.

She is 46, 30 years since she was a pregnant teenager. She has built a successful career, probably made a bit of profit on house sales like millions of other people.
What is the obsession with her financial affairs, there are plenty of others with much more dodgy finances - Farage's dodgy £5 million for one, who also owns 5 properties.

So does the UK

Probably be a lot of countries have that

I wasn't aware the UK has far- left in large numbers

All I know is there is massive civil unrest across Europe, UK included