A question only for those who think UK society has lost its way, in the fascist direction

[supercrone]

How long do you think this will last? And how bad will it get? I'm thinking of Weimar Germany. So let's say 1929 to 1945. But then also the post way recovery. Will a whole generation lose their best years? I can't see things getting better very fast to be honest. I think things are going to get much worse before they get better. Much much worse. What do other people think? I'm not at all interested in the views of those who think that things are getting better. You go off to your own thread. This is for the really worried among us.

It terrifies me. I don't know how it's going to end. I'm hearing awful opinions and cruelty from people that I know and never expected it of. It's not just the far right any more. It's ordinary people. People I like/d. The momentum behind it is frighteningly strong.

The spead of disinformation is so fast. And people are just lapping it up. Anyone who doesn't look like us is now the enemy. It's simple tribalism.

Ve vill ask ze questions

Belfast scared me the most
picking random individuals and families from houses simply because of their colour

that’s when I realise we have lost our way..

I know. That's what scares me so much. The spread of the hated and intolerance. It's terrifying.

Yes though Belfast built on a very entrenched tradition of intolerance to be fair.

Question only for those who leap to comparing us to Nazi Germany at any possible minor civil unrest… Is it anxiety causing you to catastrophise or are you actually looking forward to it tuning out that way so you can be proved right? We are nowhere near that and it’s insulting to victims of the Nazis to imagine otherwise. For starters wanting economic migrants to stop coming here is nothing like trying to kill off entire ethnic minorities who have always lived in the country and have nowhere to go. But keep whipping yourselves up into a frenzy of fear and egging each other on.

I'm not taking about people who want more control over immigration. That's a perfectly fair opinion to have.

I'm taking about those spewing hate all over social media. The ones who are believing that every asylum seeker is a criminal or a rapist. The ones who are attacking or abusing normal people for just being the wrong colour. Like that four generations Scottish guy who happens to be brown, and was completely falsely abused of taking photos of children, and his face put all over the internet by Tommy Robinson. I bet you anything that the best majority of people still think he was a paedophile.

People are encouraging hate and making it personal. And it's all about colour and islam.

Of course the current situation is not directly comparable to Nazi Germany and nobody is suggesting that what is happening right now is remotely similar to horrors of the Holocaust. That would be crass and offensive.

However, those who are familiar with the history of that period can't help but notice some parallels with what happened in the early days of fascism. We notice the warning signs with concern. Not because we think it's inevitable that something like that will ever happen again, but because we are eager to guard against it.

I never mentioned any issue like being opposed d to economic migrants. I'm talking about a general atmosphere of growing hatred. The people in talking to know what I mean.

Weimar Germany was 1919-33. Third Reich was 1933-45. Which era are you wanting? Weimar was the hyperinflation, Third Reich the fascism.

It's not comparable. Society is way too different. Too many generations of advancement. The former Yugoslavia breakup might be a better yardstick.

Channel your worry into positive action.
That is how you stop the poison spreading. Be part of the solution, it will not only contribute to creating the tolerant society you are in fear of losing it will help your own mental state of being very worried.

There’s a lot of worry and hate around.

i did find the reporting of the Belfast situation interesting because the usual deal in Belfast is beating people up and killing then for being the “wrong” type of Christianity so it was interesting to hear both types of Christian condemn the exact same behaviour based on race.

(for avoidance of doubt I strongly disapprove of both but it was amusing seeing people who have previously defended it condemn it).

on a personal level I am trying to detach and remind myself that many eras had times of high tension and they don’t always lead to catastrophe

I’m concerned that facism or some kind of version of could/is taking a foothold in USA and Europe. Hopefully it won’t come to anything worse than now.

There is a real campaign of Divide and Conquer going on and has been for years. We had Brexit which split the nation then Covid, Labour V Conservatives, Labour V Reform, Reform V Greens, Palestine V Israel, Immigrants V Everyone, Benefits Recipients V Tax Payers, Trans V Women and now North V South.

The media and their paymasters (the banks) are doing a real number very effectively on society spinning everyone's heads while they fuck us over financially.

I honestly don't really believe the Governments past and present make any decisions, they are ruled by the banks who are making a fortune out of us. They are just puppets.

Have you ever known so many politicians to be so ridiculously wealthy? Or this contemptuous?
In the UK we are paying more for energy than any other country for a Net Zero policy which is bullshit because the rest of the world isn't bothering so it's futile but we are all being liberated of our money while the Government keep wasting money and send it abroad.

In France my electricity is an absolute fraction of what I pay here and keeps going down.
The moment the fuel price came down the French Government demanded from the supermarkets that the lowered price was immediately so the population benefitted.
I mean France has a LOT of problems too but the quality of life there is far beyond what is going on here.

What do we get here? Cheaper bus fares and no vat for 6 months on electricity which will save people about £40 🙄

Unemployment is at an all time high, they are decimating the countryside to build thousands of new homes when the mortgage rates are so high that people can't afford to buy houses or even qualify for a mortgage.

So who exactly is going to live in these houses?

They are killing off small businesses who actually look after staff and are an active part of the community more than the faceless huge corporations like Amazon who pay fuck all taxes here and Costa which is run at a loss in spite of there being one one virtually every street.

If the Government gave a shiny shit about the citizens of the Uk it would actually do something to make life liveable and affordable.

If they want to improve the economy maybe make some decisions that enable people to breathe financially and be able to spend.

Yet they don't.

Hopefully you’ve realised that’s what’s been going on in Belfast for the last 50+ years if you swap religion for colour…. Nothing new.

I think if you look at some serious texts like Hannah Arendt's work, the signs are all there. They didn't arrive fully formed goose-stepping in 30's Germany. Many years of similar activities lead up to it.

I mean, the only way to be a politician historically was to be ridiculously wealthy? That’s until they changed the rules and introduced salaries and expenses etc. is that the example you’re looking for? Sorry if it ruins your hyperbole

I really hate those pretend, passive aggressive questions. You definitely don’t need to be able to argue with any elegance to be a right winger!

Perhaps if the issues faced were actually addressed rather than continually calling people fascist we would get somewhere.

I'm not at all interested in the views of those who think that things are getting better. You go off to your own thread. This is for the really worried among us.
What a ridiculous position to take. Is this how you normally debate?

Don’t fool yourself that “it can’t happen here”. It already is happening.

Unfortunately I think the only way this can turn around for any meaningful length of time is for there to be some sort of catastrophe that means people will say “never again”. Sadly that will end up being very bad for an awful lot of people. But, history has shown us that we don’t mean “never” we mean “not until it’s largely forgotten”

The “issues faced” are addressed. Mostly it’s pointing out that the answer to your problems isn’t what you think it is, but nobody wants to hear that.

I thought that
The OP seems to want to create a post echo chamber that just reflects one point of view, exactly how social media incites this hatred in the first place.

They never are interested in debate. Want to talk about immigration, well you are a racist...net result : Brexit.

They don't see it though, and never will

Exactly, it’s death by a thousand cuts. Even with where we are now in the world, if you’d asked people a couple of decades ago if they would accept it, they would have been appalled.