A question only for those who think UK society has lost its way, in the fascist direction

[supercrone]

How long do you think this will last? And how bad will it get? I'm thinking of Weimar Germany. So let's say 1929 to 1945. But then also the post way recovery. Will a whole generation lose their best years? I can't see things getting better very fast to be honest. I think things are going to get much worse before they get better. Much much worse. What do other people think? I'm not at all interested in the views of those who think that things are getting better. You go off to your own thread. This is for the really worried among us.

BuT iM jUsT aSkInG qUeStIoNs WhY dOnT yOu WaNt To DeBaTe. Etc etc
The idea that every single conversation has to be about challenging people, and winning an argument is exhausting

This.

It is not coming from “the left”, it is coming from all sides. The difference from the 1930s is there is also an Israeli government not doing Jewish people any favours with their actions, and (as far as I can see) there isn’t a government led mandate to target Jews in the country.

It’s hard to see what’s happening in Gaza, and not feel it is disproportionate, but the vast majority of sane individuals do not blame Jewish people for that the same way I don’t blame the Palestinians for the actions of Hamas. I’m not sure the situation has led to more people being anti-Semitic, I think it has led to those who were already anti-Semitic finding a handy outlet for them to “legitimately” (in their minds) target Jews.

Would it be possible for there to be a part of MN just for white posters, in the interests of equality?

No, because I honestly think the only issues we have on account of being white are 'maybe having our feelings hurt'. People of colour are impacted by racism very widely and materially.

You are absolutely free to ask MN for a separate all white forum.

The fallout could be worse than the breakup of Yugoslavia.

Back then, the population shared deep historical roots and physical commonalities. Tito suppressed religious factions and enforced cultural alignment. When he died and borders shifted, the region fractured instantly along sectarian lines. We are experiencing the exact reverse.

Our current Government actively amplifies division through forced multiculturalism. I think the only way to survive this is a strong leader who can suppress tribal differences and unite the country under a single identity. I believe this is exactly what Rupert Lowe wants to achieve.

@Gealach@BoredZelda

i am not claiming that there are not huge problems that there are not legitimate routes. What I am saying is that you can pay a gang leader from Egypt, from Vietnam, from Pakistan, from Albania and then claim that you have been forced to be a victim by the conditions that you accepted to get into the U.K.. I’m not saying that the people who come into the U.K. are criminals for having arrived, but that they are paying criminals, in many cases knowingly, to smuggle them in. Obviously, if they are legitimate asylum seekers who have no choice and should be granted asylum (and would have got asylum had they been able to apply at an embassy), then the ends justify the means, but if you are claiming the fact of the smuggling as evidence that you are an asylum seeker then I don’t think you should qualify.

I personally think that both of you misread what I said because you are tired of countering a very different point to that which I am making, but what it proves is that people do jump down people’s throats quite easily, which is what makes this discussion quite difficult to have 😊

There are threads for people who, eg, don't like Burnham. I don't go on those and tell the people on there actually Burnham is the best thing since sliced bread and they are wrong and stoopid. Because it's not a "debate me" thread.
I don't think there is much call for a white people only space. If there was one set up I don't think I would post on it because what is there specifically about being white that I need to discuss? Whereas the black mumsnetters got constantly "challenged" when discussing issues around race etc so asked for and got their own space that was meant to be for discussion and plopper free.

I guess the question is what role would a white only portion of Mumsnet serve for you? Or is it just about it for tat? If someone set up a knitters club there's nothing to stop you setting up a space for non-knitters to talk about the issues pertaining to non-knitters but why???

There is far more hate online than in real life. Most of it is fake, created to further an agenda of division. Unfortunately it does influence people in real life, but what is said online does not accurately represent what is actually happening. Online communities and social media magnify hate, because it drives clicks from both sides. Then people think that's how things are irl because it's all they see.
I do agree that it is worrying. Seeing conservative Christianity, anti science views etc on the rise, online at least, is extremely scary. The US is a malign influence.

I wholeheartedly support multiculturalism but I don’t think that the current migration system is working. Lack of housing opportunities, cost of living issues, no hope for younger generations to have the life previous generations expected and post truth ideologies are really damaging the social fabric.

Unless European governments start to wake up they will be the last people standing behind these nonsense ideas attracting very limited public support.

What is the ideal number of migrants as a percentage? Is it 10% - we are well over that, is it 15%? 20% we are over those or is it 50%? 70%?

I think most people have their own line in the sand whereby they will begin to see the problems that this scale of migration will bring?

Many have people have already reached their threshold, maybe some might never reach theirs.

I think this is an important point. Anti immigrant riots are terrible, but it's still a tiny minority of people taking part. But yes, it is important to recognise that Social Media is not reality.

People will say stuff they wouldn't act on or would never say to someone's face IRL because they are feeling frustrated, but I still believe the vast majority of people are decent and don't want to be racist/prejudiced.

I had an acquaintance tell me to my face that her husband can't get a job because the jobs are going to brown DEI candidates.
I am brown. She must not have noticed.

OP, you said:

"I'm thinking of Weimar Germany. So let's say 1929 to 1945".

I wonder whether that sentence needs to be re-considered in light of the fact that the period known as the Weimar Republic covers the years 1919-1933.

The years 1933-1945 are the Third Reich, ie when the NSDAP and Hitler were in power.

I think that you are thinking of the Third Reich rather than Weimar.

I don’t think it helps if people just say that’s racist …stop being a racist.

It’s more about all the organisations and institutions that would be against this uniting with a we hear your concerns, everyone deserves to feel safe in their community and to have a home and a job that pays the bills. Change the conversation rather than shut it down.

Some people are racist, some people have some racist ideas but I like to think that most people don’t think whites are some superior race….and they literally just believe that foreign folk are the cause of all their problems.

What's the difference between that and pre war Germany then. Where people blamed the Jews for their economic problems (which were very substantial but had different causes)?

I'm thinking that Weimar laid the foundation for the third Reich, so you could see the beginnings of Nazism before Hitler came to power. The analogy is that the UK is in the sort of stage now. I picked 1929 because of the wallbstreet crash which had such a big impact economically and helped create the climate where people wanted to blame someone for Germanys woes.

You see the irony, right, you are saying 'they' as in 'us and them'. Rather than considering that people with opposing points of view from yours are not one amorphous blob of wrong.

Op are you part of a union ?
They really get into the facist stuff and there would be many like minded people there.

Well there was a lack of a strong united opposition in Germany.

I’m not saying that we shouldn’t challenge propaganda and disinformation- we absolutely should. But it won’t work if we simply cause people racist. We have to do more than that.

I blame the death of the truth on social media. It's the old Goebbels (I think) line of if you repeat a lie often enough it becomes the truth. Frightening.

It’s not great when you live in an area that changes beyond recognition and you are now in the minority, it feels more like mono culturalism but not yours and perhaps you preferred it the way it used to be.

why is it necessary?

I'm part of a union

I don’t think I’m jumping down your throat. It’s not my intention at all.

I think you might be mistaken though.

Some people pay people smugglers to come to the UK. Once they arrive they are free to go and they claim asylum. These people cannot claim to be a refugee on the basis that they paid a people smuggler to come here. They need to show that they will be persecuted in their own country. Paying a people smuggler isn’t evidence you are a refugee.

Some other people are trafficked here. They are controlled or exploited. Like a woman who is transported for a restaurant job but then their passport is taken and they are forced to do sex work. This person is a victim of a crime. They may use the fact that they were trafficked as part of their asylum claim….because they may be at risk of being trafficked again if they return to their country.

I’ll tell you who the fascists are – the so-called ‘liberal’ left! They have IMPOSED mass immigration and multiculturalism on Britain and destroyed any sense of shared culture or shared history or shared identity.

A speechwriter for Blair said their plan was “to rub the right’s nose in diversity and render their arguments out of date.” Needless to say, by ‘the right’ he means ‘anyone who disagrees with us in any way.’ Those are the words of a fascist. When you “rub someone’s nose” in something you are a fascist and a bully. No one on earth is more dictatorial, intolerant or hate-filled than a metropolitan liberal. But because their spite and hatred is directed towards middle-class Daily Mail readers, somehow it doesn’t count. You can demonise their national heroes. You can destroy their identity. You can turn their world upside down, and make them feel like outsiders in their own towns and cities. And if they get angry and hit back, they’re still the baddies and you’re still the goodies.

The smugness and hypocrisy of the left takes my breath away.