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likelysuspect · 18/06/2026 21:53

Allisnotlost1 · 18/06/2026 10:27

And you refer to the people you work with as ‘criminal classes’. Good to know.

Yes those that make a lifestyle/routine out of criminality yes.

igelkott2026 · 19/06/2026 13:37

LlynTegid · 17/06/2026 13:20

I would have a separate category of car licence. Which you could only get after a period of a clean licence for a standard size of car, and have to meet extra requirements such as regular re-take of the theory test, eyesight and perhaps other tests.

Another option which is not of help here would be to place the burden of proof in a crash where an SUV or high performance car is involved that it is not the fault of the driver of the vehicle.

Agree with your first para. Most people do their test in something like a Yaris (I did mine in a Micra) and so then driving something the size of a small bus should require more evidence of competence.

But I am tempted to say that anyone who has an accident in an SUV is deemed responsible unless they can prove otherwise (and if there's two SUVs they can fight it out between them).

ilovebrie8 · 19/06/2026 16:49

I agree @igelkott2026 re SUVs they are like tanks those cars.

Anyone in a collision with them is going to be in big trouble.

A normal run around car wouldn’t have done the damage that car did, its size and weight.
It is all about status symbols the biggest house, the biggest car…😦.

If you look at Land Rovers website they describe the car as the unstoppable 4x4. It’s not a regular car it’s an off road machine.

Allisnotlost1 · 19/06/2026 19:21

likelysuspect · 18/06/2026 21:53

Yes those that make a lifestyle/routine out of criminality yes.

Doesn’t sound like the right job for you if you struggle to call people ‘people’.

Allisnotlost1 · 19/06/2026 19:26

igelkott2026 · 19/06/2026 13:37

Agree with your first para. Most people do their test in something like a Yaris (I did mine in a Micra) and so then driving something the size of a small bus should require more evidence of competence.

But I am tempted to say that anyone who has an accident in an SUV is deemed responsible unless they can prove otherwise (and if there's two SUVs they can fight it out between them).

Edited

But I am tempted to say that anyone who has an accident in an SUV is deemed responsible unless they can prove otherwise (and if there's two SUVs they can fight it out between them).

Do you mean you think the SUV driver should be responsible regardless of their actions? So if someone reverses into them, or runs a red light and rams them, it’s still their fault?

likelysuspect · 19/06/2026 19:30

Allisnotlost1 · 19/06/2026 19:21

Doesn’t sound like the right job for you if you struggle to call people ‘people’.

They are people, I didnt say they werent, I was responding to someone who asked whether other people would have concessions in court and I pointed out a whole class of people, group of people if you prefer (I think you're getting hung up on the word class) who are in and out of court a lot and who are vulnerable have a huge number of concessions made for them. Concessions are made every day in courts up and down the land. Its not unusual.

BeenTooFarAgain · 24/06/2026 08:13

Allisnotlost1 · 18/06/2026 10:30

The purpose of the trial is to test the defence. The prosecution didn’t object to CF not sitting in the dock (which they can and do), so there must be some reasonable basis for the request, and no doubt they are also acting tactically.

The purpose of a trial is not to test the defence.

The purpose of a criminal trial is for the prosecution to prove, beyond reasonable doubt, that a criminal offence has been committed.

A person may choose to put a defence in; they may choose to simply pick apart the evidence of the prosecution to put doubts in the minds of the jurors and therefore not meet the burden of proof (beyond reasonable doubt); they may choose, in rare cases, to do neither and let the prosecutions evidence speak for itself.

And just to pre-empt: this woman may never stand in the dock and give evidence/be crossed examined. It will be a tactical choice of her legal team - will her giving evidence be beneficial to challenge the burden of proof?

Allisnotlost1 · 24/06/2026 09:57

BeenTooFarAgain · 24/06/2026 08:13

The purpose of a trial is not to test the defence.

The purpose of a criminal trial is for the prosecution to prove, beyond reasonable doubt, that a criminal offence has been committed.

A person may choose to put a defence in; they may choose to simply pick apart the evidence of the prosecution to put doubts in the minds of the jurors and therefore not meet the burden of proof (beyond reasonable doubt); they may choose, in rare cases, to do neither and let the prosecutions evidence speak for itself.

And just to pre-empt: this woman may never stand in the dock and give evidence/be crossed examined. It will be a tactical choice of her legal team - will her giving evidence be beneficial to challenge the burden of proof?

Of course you’re correct, I phrased it that way in response to the pp’s comment about the quality of the defence.

Allisnotlost1 · 24/06/2026 10:00

likelysuspect · 19/06/2026 19:30

They are people, I didnt say they werent, I was responding to someone who asked whether other people would have concessions in court and I pointed out a whole class of people, group of people if you prefer (I think you're getting hung up on the word class) who are in and out of court a lot and who are vulnerable have a huge number of concessions made for them. Concessions are made every day in courts up and down the land. Its not unusual.

I’m ‘hung up’ on you referring to your clients - who you describe as vulnerable - as ‘the criminal classes’. It’s just not a view I’d expect any kind of support worker to hold about their clients.

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