I'm no fan of Donald Trump, but..

[TheFilliesWillRiseAgain]

I'm no fan of Trump but imagine if Biden or Harris had won the 2024 election:

Maduro would still be destroying Venezuela

The Ayatollah would still be killing his own people in Iran

Iran would still have nuclear weapons

There would probably still be Israeli hostages in Gaza

India and Pakistan could be at war

As could Armenia and Azerbaijan; Rwanda and DRC; Egypt and Ethiopia; and Cambodia and Thailand

Russia would be in a much stronger position in Ukraine

Other NATO countries would be spending less on defence.

He's not very good domestically but that's an incredible record on foreign affairs. Let's face it: The world would be on fire if Biden or Harris had won. Trump is seen as a strong man around the world and, outside of the west, that's probably respected.

Fucking hell

I don't think anyone here is mourning the loss of the Ayatollah or wishing that he was still in power. They are concerned about how the US and Israel have gone about this operation. If you aren't capable of understanding this very basic distinction, then it's unlikely that you will be able to participate meaningfully in any discussions on the topic.

I would guess those people are waiting with bated breath for the rest of Trump and Netanyahu's plans to institute regime change that will be to their benefit. And will be waiting for a long, long time, while the power vacuum creates even worse conditions.

It's funny how, 'I'm no Trump fan but,' is always followed up with a regurgitation of the most facile White House talking points. Almost like the OP's are actually Trump fans.

Check your own IQ. No name calling on my post you’ve quoted, against posters on MN, other than calling Corbyn an idiot. Which clearly offends you….

Agree OP.

The problem is that it's very difficult to know what to believe because Trump's own interpretation of the truth is matched quite evenly with the lies and distortion by outlets like the BBC.

The penny dropped for me a while ago (before the edited tape scandal) that most news we got about Trump was utter made up shite (from both sides). I ended up watching some live addresses he made and the way they were reported on by UK media had absolutely no relationship with what I watched. But then if you watch a right wing commentator it's too glowing in the opposite direction

I do think his undermining of the US 'checks and balances' is very concerning for the US but I do also think the world is much safer because of him. And he's a hell of a lot better in terms of wanting peace not war than the leaders of many other powerful countries (it's a low bar).

Before he was elected I saw a commentary from a political commentator (I can't remember who) saying that the middle east would be safer if Trump won because ME nations saw him as strong and wouldn't mess him around, unlike Biden.

What is clear is that Trump is someone who is willing to take action and doesn't care very much about the luxury beliefs of the elite political cabal of the west. And is totally willing to upend whatever they decide they want. Overall, I don't think this is a bad thing that other leaders know on a global stage. The Iran nuclear situation alone makes that true.

And the media pushing of Trump derangement syndrome is real. There are so, so many worse countries in the world than the USA for human rights, and most of them run by worse leaders, worse pedophiles, worse to women, committing worse human rights abuses. These are the type of men that have power worldwide (i'm not a fan, but it's a fact), yet everyone I speak to is so hyper-focused on Trump and what he's done wrong and presupposing whatever he's doing is evil.

To the point of sometimes taking the side of truly evil nations e.g. IR where women are killed for uncovering their hair. And saying 'oh well, it's likely whoever comes next will be worse than the current murderous extreme dictator' - oh well that's ok then . Don't care about women and children when they're half the entire Iranian population then (who are trying to rise up against the evil regime)?

There's also sweet fa anyone in the UK can do about Trump - we don't get a vote in the US.

I suppose it's mostly intentional distraction. If people get super angry about the conveniently unpleasant leader of another country they're less likely to have the energy to demand some level of action for the horror of the grooming gangs and the recent allegations of police involvement in the widespread rape and torture of children in the UK (etc).

why?

So OK Iran may have attempted a terrorist attack in London and be behind 20 further terrorist plots in the UK. And OK Iran supported Hamas, Hezbollah and the Houthis. And OK Iran has launched missile attack against hotels in Dubai as well as the RAF base in Cyprus. OK - Iran has been developing nuclear weapons and acting as a general destabilising influence across the Middle East.

BUT because it's Trump, the Islamo leftists are all over this thread criticising him.

Honestly seeing the Islamo leftists (Corbyn, Green Party, pro Palestine lobby etc) desperately wanting to criticise Trump for the attacks on Iran but being confused and conflicted by ordinary Iranians supporting the attacks is like watching a computer glitch.

Does it really matter how they went about removing him? This has been a long time in the making. Other approaches have obviously failed. The regime had their chances. They didn’t take the choices put forward. It is what it is…..

I disagreeing with the framing that if you dislike Trump or this action that you’re a leftie who supports Corbyn.

There’s a hypocrisy by some in saying if you are worried or don’t support this attack that you supported the dead Iranian leader. Trump said he was against the Iraqi war and campaigned on being against it in his first campaign, so following that logic did he and others who didn’t support attacking Iraq approve of Sadam as a leader?

I'm certainly not pro the current vile Iranian Government. But I do think we should learn and understand from history. The reason for the 1979 revolution that brought this current appalling regime to power was at least partly a backlash against Western intervention within Iran in the previous few decades. Regime change does not have a generally positive outcome - and Trump is acting illegally with no thought about what will actually happen next for the Iranian people. As with all dictatorships there is no viable government alternative in place, and the most likely outcome is chaos and civil war. Western intervention often has unplanned negative consequences (think the rise of Isis after the fall of Saddam Hussein as well as the devastating civil war). Getting rid of dictators and evil regimes is relatively easy and has been done many times - supporting a transition to long-term peace and security for populations is much more difficult. I really hope that Iran will be the exception that succeeds in achieving this, but it is far from certain that their lives will improve either in the short or longer term.

Weirdly, some people are capable of caring about the Israeli children killed on October 7, as well as the Palestinian children killed since and the children killed in the school on Saturday.

However, your statement, There are always casualties in wars, aren't there. sounds like exactly the kind of thing that would be said by someone who didn't care about any of them.

I really hope they thrive.

Yes, I think it does matter.

Anyone thinking it means regime change is either at it or extremely naive.

And I dare say it would matter if someone went about a regime change in the US or Israel in the same way.

Are you aspiring to be the next Caroline Leavitt or just batshit crazy ? Notice how no ones talking about the Epstein files this weekend , wonder why

It received little media attention at the time but last year India and Pakistan engaged in four days of fighting each other.

Trump agreed to broker a potential ceasefire and both parties agreed, and a ceasefire was quickly called. They asked Trump because they both respect him - similar to Obama but not like Biden and certainly not Harris.

Armenia and Azerbaijan have twice gone to war this decade. They were about to go a third time last summer but Trump invited both leaders to the White House and acted as a mediator. Both countries then agreed and signed a peace deal.

Indeed!

Do you think the Iranians celebrating are wrong to do so?

Yes, it's true that you can't trust news from them, however, they'd have quite a lot of lying to do to even hope to catch up to Trump's level.

Can you share your source please?

Ok dokey.
Sometimes I do think it would be better to live in your world... less mental load there.

Exactly, instead of launching an air attack and killing the Ayatollah then definitely the US and Trump should have instead sent him a strongly worded letter threatening not to invite the Ayatollah to Trump's birthday party. Now that would have shown them!

Mr Vance is that you? 😂

I think the Iranians celebrating today are desperate to find some hope. They can be delighted that the Ayatollah has gone while remaining very frightened about what the future might hold.

ETA A lot of Iraqis celebrated in the streets when Saddam Hussain was taken out, but their lives did not necessarily get better in the aftermath.