DD banned from NYC trip

[Chickenwinger]

Morning

DF (15) has been a pain at school recently I don’t dispute this. Last summer she went to France with the school and had a fallout with some friends. She responded by not following staff instructions:m/ being rude and the teachers had to call me.

there’s NYC trip later this year that she had signed up for. The Headteacher said he’d allow her to still go if she demonstrates positive behaviour between now and then.

last week she attended a day trip- a geography field trip. She had an another argument and basically walked off in the middle of the city as she sas upset. Staff located her promptly and it was clear that she’d been provoked by the other girl.

yesterday I received a call from the deputy head to tell me that her place on the New York trip has been cancelled. Apparently they aren’t confident that she’ll behave and staff aren’t willing to be responsible. They’ve refunded me way I’ve paid so far.

ste’s devastated and has cried all night. I can’t help but feel the school have been heavy handed. DH disagrees and thinks it serves her right!!

do I need to pursue this with the school as a complaint?

Sounds like a safe guarding nightmare and they would be totally irresponsible to take her based on her actions on the last two trips.
I wouldn’t as a parent want her to go either, storming off on New York could be disastrous.
Im with your DH and school on this one

I had a similar issue a while back. We all sat down and adopted a cause and Effect diagram. Eg If you do this, this and this the effect will be....It was not a pleasant situation but the result was workable.

They can’t have her walking off in a strop in NY.

I really feel for her though, but hopefully she’ll learn from it.

Play silly games win silly prizes its her own fault

Support the schools decision. You need to reinforce this decision is due to her unpredictable behaviour.

No teacher would want to be responsible for your daughters irresponsible behaviour in another country.

They have made the right decision

I'm sorry but you absolutely CANNOT expect teachers to risk that. I'm 100% in agreement with school. The issue here is why so many arguments? Can't surely always be the different kids she's falling out with? Sounds like school are doing your job for you in teaching her that threats are meant and actions have consequences. She sounds like a liability, impulsive and irresponsible, flouncing off and causing teachers all that worry. Imagine that but scaled up to NYC. No way. Hopefully, lesson learnt.

Interesting how the OP has not returned.

This. She doesn't deserve the trip.

Head teacher warned her. Your DH is right, she only has herself to blame.

She would be too difficult to manage. The teachers have to consider the needs and wellbeing of the others, and she would be a risk.

Your DH is correct. Hopefully this will be a sharp shock to her and make her rethink her behavior. There is no way the school could take her with them with the knowledge that she could bolt. Imagine she had a falling out with her roommate and storms out of the hostel etc. The teachers maybe able to find her easily in a small city etc but can you imagine if she stormed out of somewhere like Grand Central Station. It would be impossible to find her.

It would not be fair on either the staff or the other students who could miss out on activities because the teachers are looking for her.

Instead of complaining (which would be pointless in this situation) you need to find out why your daughter is reacting in this manner. She has been given two chances, it would be neglectful of the school to allow her go. I think you also have to self reflect in this situation and to why you think that the school are being heavy handed when they are in fact totally correct. You need to support the school here (and be grateful that they are refunding).

They have to be responsible for her whilst away. She's not willing to behave. She doesn't go. Actions have consequences. She's old enough to understand that. Just leave it there.

Quite right. She sounds a pain in the arse.

I think it's worth considering though. I'm not saying she is on the spectrum, but she could be. Why is she unravelling like this? If she is asd she just needs more scaffolding- i agree it's not a licence. My daughter went to a specialist asd school and they managed to take all the kids to Barcelona in year 11. It can be done with the right support. I used to be involved in a local asd group for girls and so many girls were diagnosed when they went to uni - it is genuinely not on people's radar with well behaved, achieving girls.

It sounds like you think that walking off is a reasonable reaction to someone upsetting her. It is understandable if you’re 5 but by 15 she should have the life experience to think of ways to get away from the annoying person without worrying and inconveniencing the rest of the people on the trip.

Complain if you like but the school has a duty of care to all their students and they cant take the risk of losing her in NY.

She needs to learn shes responsible for her behaviour regardless of how she feels.

Youve told her, the schools told, her behaviour was irresponsible and reckless and that has consequences. You cant say she didnt have fair warning. The school is making a good call. I agree with DH

Would you want to be responsible for someone else’s child in a foreign county when they’ve form for running off and failing to follow instructions when angry?
Of course the school have done the right thing here. It’s not so much about punishment, but making sure that children in their care are safe. Your DD has proven on more than one occasion that she is liable to put herself at risk, which in turn impacts on the other children on the trip and the staff themselves.
Your DH is right.

I wouldn't consider making a complaint at this stage, but I would definitely talk to her to find out what she was thinking and what went wrong so that you can help her act in ways that achieve her desired outcomes AND help her cope when she makes a mistake and is disappointed. You say The Headteacher said he’d allow her to still go if she demonstrates positive behaviour between now and then. If this was ALL that was said, it's vague and subjective and the school probably should have set clearer expectations for a 15yo.

BUT your daughter also "should" have known that leaving the group during a school trip broke the school rules and would NOT be considered "positive behaviour" but the opposite. She may well have been provoked, but she should have sought out a teacher or chaperone for help if she wasn't able to manage her reaction or get the space she needed within the group to cool down. Does she acknowledge that she did the wrong thing, and does she have thoughts about how to prevent things like this going forward?

If she is repeatedly unable to manage her emotions and remember what the rules are and stay within them even when provoked, angry, upset, etc, then she might benefit from some professional counseling to determine if there is some underlying issue and/or to learn coping skills. If you can't access this directly, the school may be able to offer suggestions and help.

Your daughter sounds like the problem

Yet another MN post that reminds me that parents are the worst aspect of working in schools. After the France 'incident', I would have phoned school and asked for the place to be cancelled to show my DD that parents and school work together in the interests of the child. DH and school are right. Now, I would be challenging DD to come up with a plan for how she will constructively spend the days when she would have been in NYC.

DD went on a residential in Y6. One of the pupils lay down on a zebra crossing in a tourist village in the Peak District, causing the traffic to pile up. He refused to stand up and walk to the pavement so two teachers had to carry him to there. A teacher called his parents, asking them to collect him (40 minute drive) because they could not keep him safe. Initially, they refused, on the grounds that they had paid for the trip.

The similarity between these two stories? Parents whose own muddled attitudes to parenting are reflected in the poor behaviour if their offspring.

Frankly, I am astonished at the Headteachers ‘if she behaves ….she can go’.

How utterly irresponsible is that !

@Chickenwinger dare I say it that your reaction shows exactly why she behaves as she does - do you ever make her face consequences of her own behaviour? I can't believe you'd even think about complaining. you are very lucky that they are giving you the money back.

Nah I’d do the same in the school’s position. There need to be consequences for behaviour like that.

Teachers find my friends app with pupils numbers??? Massive safeguarding flags!!!

What would you say if they phoned you up, said she'd stormed off and they couldn't find her? I'm guessing you would blame the school for that too.
The head warned her and she couldn't be bothered to listen. The staff (understandably) do not want to risk taking her.
I'm sure she is upset and I do feel a bit sorry for her but it's her fault she can't go. You need to back the school.
I'd look at getting her some counselling or something too. It's not reasonable for her to storm off every time she falls out with someone.