DD banned from NYC trip

[Chickenwinger]

Morning

DF (15) has been a pain at school recently I don’t dispute this. Last summer she went to France with the school and had a fallout with some friends. She responded by not following staff instructions:m/ being rude and the teachers had to call me.

there’s NYC trip later this year that she had signed up for. The Headteacher said he’d allow her to still go if she demonstrates positive behaviour between now and then.

last week she attended a day trip- a geography field trip. She had an another argument and basically walked off in the middle of the city as she sas upset. Staff located her promptly and it was clear that she’d been provoked by the other girl.

yesterday I received a call from the deputy head to tell me that her place on the New York trip has been cancelled. Apparently they aren’t confident that she’ll behave and staff aren’t willing to be responsible. They’ve refunded me way I’ve paid so far.

ste’s devastated and has cried all night. I can’t help but feel the school have been heavy handed. DH disagrees and thinks it serves her right!!

do I need to pursue this with the school as a complaint?

Absolutely do not fight this - the school are doing you a huge favour by giving your child direct and unpleasant, but very fair, consequences of her actions. This is a great experience for her to learn from. If she shows appropriate learning from it - sadness but self understanding that this is on her, as opposed to just complaining how fair it is, I would maybe take her out for a nice day to distract her when it happens but you need to gently reinforce the point as well which is she made her own choices and they had consequences.

This is a direct consequence of her behaviour. Absolutely do not complain! I do not blame the staff at all for not wanting that responsibility in another country, particularly in a big city like NYC.

Your DH is right. At her age she knows about consequences, she was told what she needed to do to be able to go and didn’t do it. It doesn’t matter if you think the other girl provoked, you were not there no doubt you only have your child’s side of the story

she needs to learn to walk away not get involved
This is one of life’s lessons. she will learn from

Not heavy handed OP. As a teacher myself, safety on school trips is paramount. Thorough risk assessments are put in place, and your DD has been deemed too risky to go. Hopefully this will be a big learning curve for her, and will motivate her to
improve her behaviour. Teachers also do not get paid extra for school trips, and the thought of an extra worry (on top of everything else!) is not what they need!

And we won’t hear from the OP again.
Why on earth she thinks she has grounds for a complaint beats me. Her daughter needs to be taught a few manners, she clearly is too immature to be trusted when on school outings.

You've got to be kidding right? Your daughter has shown she can't be trusted on trips. You need to start taking responsibility and disciplining her as appropriate so she learns she can't do what she wants! This is not a school problem.

I think if this is how you've parented your DD for the last 15 years, then ultimatly this is on you.

This is a natural conequence of her behaviour, the most basic form of discipline, you need to support the school in this decision and start applying these principles to your own parenting, then there may just be some hope of your DD maturing in to a functional adult.

I do sympathise with you but the school are being responsible here. One of the most risky things a child can do on a school trip is run off so that staff don't know where she is, even briefly. Maybe your DD didn't understand that? If she is prone to running off then the school can't reasonably take her on a trip. It's not safe. For any provocation that's less than an immediate physical threat she must not know not to run away!

If my 15 year old was a flight risk, I wouldn't want them to go. The thought of what could happen if she got upset and stormed off in NYC is terrible, and the stress and disruption it would cause the staff and other kids would be a nightmare. Teachers have to be confident they can keep children safe on a school trip, and a big city like NYC is risky. The students need to be capable of following instructions. She isn't yet, so she can't go.

The school won't be able to change their mind if you complain. They have to complete risk assessments. If they took a student with a documented history of running off and that student ran off and came to harm then staff would have to answer for it. They would be investigated and held accountable. Why would a teacher put their career on the line for a disobedient pupil who has already ignored warnings?

There is no budget for them to take an extra staff member to accompany this girl as a one-to-one and so there is no way they can safely take her. She needs the maturity to ignore provocation and show that she can follow instructions, however upset she is. Because she can't do that, the school cannot take the risk of letting her on the trip.

The only way they should allow her is if hou go as well so that she is your responsibility to manage.

I disagree with school trips like this in general. But that's a different topic. However, sounds like actions has consequences. She is 15, she should knwo better. She got a fair warning and didn't follow it. She had the option to walk away from that person and not storm off.

I would like to know how she was provoked? I'm willing to change my answer if she was called names/slurs/threats where walking away was genuinely a good choise.

Sorry if this isn't helpful, but surely you have more peace of mind if she doesn't go. The worry is obviously if she disappears in a foreign city that could all go very wrong.
Although my son is only 5, he has shown all the attributes of being difficult at school, including trying to walk or run away when he is upset. Although it breaks my heart, I have to mean it when I say no trips he's been promised, or when school revoke his break time, as a consequence because he will just disappear

Well done to the school for teaching your DD that actions have consequences, as clearly she's not been taught that at home.
Absolutely do not complain to the school. They've made the right decision. Your DD cannot be trusted to stay safe and would divert staff attention from other pupils. Use your time instead to talk the reasoning through with your DD and how it will impact on her future life is she continues to behave in this way. Or better still, let your DH talk to her as he's clearly got more sense.

Of course you cannot complain to the school!! I wouldn’t even approach it as though it were a punishment. Try to get her to understand things outside of her own priorities and instead think about the number one priority for the staff on that trip. Their main priority is keeping the children safe. They risk their jobs and prosecution if something happened to a child on the trip. It’s a big risk. Everything has to be risk assessed to shit. They cannot risk any student’s safety being compromised. Your DD has demonstrated that they cannot guarantee her safety. Therefore she cannot go on the trip. It’s not even about punishment. It is purely that she presents a significant safety risk, evidenced by her actions on previous school trips. Actions have tangible consequences.

Agree with this.

I would not want to be responsible for your daughter as you have described her behaviour currently.

nor for what it’s worth would I want my own child on a foreign trip with a child like this either as it increases the risk to ALL participants in the group.

something is clearly affecting her regulation. If you can’t influence this positively please seek professional help for her.

OP has not responded to anything that has been written.
Perhaps the daughter has learned entitlement from her mother.

Reminds me of when I went to a meeting for DSs trip to Iceland.

One parent said, "My child has ADHD. How are you going to keep him safe?"

The school is doing the right thing. I hope they can find a way to support a less financially able child to attend. All these trips in our school are for the well off kids (our kids are the well off kids btw), and all the children who could really benefit from these kinds of experiences are stuck at home doing f**k all.

The alternative week at our school last year was ‘learn to run a nail salon’ (which was basically like, you’ll never get out of this shitty town and your parents are all on benefits, but hey, maybe you can strive to one day do nails!). While all the rest of them jetted off to Paris and Berlin and New York.

Exactly how many more chances to show she can behave on school trips do you think she should be given?
I think the school have been generous and unfortunately your DD hasn’t been able to show them she can be trusted to behave. So now she has to deal with the consequences.
You help her change by backing up the school and working with her on her behaviour.

Bit surprised about the reaction to a 15 years old wandering off. Presumably she had a phone with her.

Unfortunately it sounds as if she would be too much of a risk to take. If she wandered off in NYC it would cause massive issues for staff and be potentially dangerous for her. She was given the chance to prove she could be trusted and didn’t step up to the mark.

I think it would be safest for your daughter not to go on the NYC trip if she wanders off in a city when upset. Surely you’d be a little stressed at home wondering if she is going to do this whilst there? It’s one thing wandering off in the UK where presumably she might even know that city, whole different kettle of fish doing it in another country and I can see why the teachers might be worried about her doing that. It does seem unfair if she was deliberately provoked but I guess teachers do have to prioritise safety over fairness sometimes, this being one of them.

They can't take a 15 year old to NYC if she has shown she is liable to just walk off! Far too high risk. The school are absolutely right. And they gave fair warning.

It’s not about her being provoked or not, it’s about how she reacts on any difficulty/ provocation. She storms away - it’s something very difficult for staff to control and something that might have very serious consequences on the trip.
I can absolutely understand her devastation (and yours). I don’t think you should blame her too much. In a way it’s your fault too as you didn’t help her to address the issue from the last time.
Treat it like she hasn’t got a skill needed for the trip yet and try to think how to get her this skill for the future.

Why should the teachers have to put up with pupils wandering off though? Surely you can see that's a massive safeguarding risk from their point of view?!
I'm not even a teacher, just a parent and even I can see that 😕