PIP fraud is 0% says DWP

[Blackcats7]

The DWP latest report on benefit fraud states PIP fraud is 0% so all the mumsnetters who believe disabled people are scamming them out of their cash can sleep easy.

(And i have seen lots if posters suggest that levels of fraud for PIP are high. Lots of posts saying how their aunt, friend, cousin gets a free car and loads of money and there is nothing wrong with them or parents faking autism in their children to get benefits)

That's pretty much what I was going to say. Who are these posters who haven't seen the threads where posters claim they know EVERYTHING about someone's life and that they shouldn't be claiming ESA/PIP? When I was a child, everyone used to gossip about a man in our street who claimed disability benefits. This was in the 1970s. He had days when he shuffled along, barely able to lift his feet off the ground, then other times when he walked more confidently at a brisk pace. Everyone said he was faking. I was a child, so I assumed all these adults were right. When I got a bit older, I learned he had Parkinson's Disease, which is a fluctuating condition. I realise information about Parkinson's a lot more widespread these days, but back then you would only understand it if it affected you or someone in your family. The upshot is, that it taught me not to judge people because I haven't a clue how hard their life might be behind the scenes.

Yep. This is how people pretend they aren’t prejudiced at all and are really on the side of “genuine” disabled people. Straight out of the Daily Wail playbook.
Also am loving the spelling correction. I save this for very special occasions. Think it was warranted in this instance.

Nailed it. Thank you

0% is a rounded figure. It’s not saying there are zero cases of fraud. It means fraud when rounded, comes to 0%. % is # in 100. So to round to 0, it would have to be a number smaller than 0.5% of claimants commit fraud.

So less than 5 cases of fraud per 1000 claimants.
2.9million claim PIP, so fraud must be less than 14,500 fraudulent claims.

Universal Credit is where most of the benefit fraud is happening, 10.9% or 11%, that is 11 in 100, or more than 1 in 10.
5.6million claim UC, so a recorded 610,400 fraudulent claims.

Yes thank you. I get so sick of this disingenuousness on every benefit thread. We "poor ickle disabled people" dont need your type of 'help" thanks.

As to the spag correction. I'm the same, I never do that as I consider it a bit crass, but in this case I really didn't feel the poster deserved such consideration. 🤣

I never understand how anyone can state categorically that the incidence of fraud (in whatever category of benefits) is such and such per cent.

By definition, the only cases definitely known about are those that have been found out. Is anyone suggesting that every single case of benefit fraud is guaranteed to be reported or suspected, and proved?

@MistyGreenAndBlue I am often reminded of the “I’m not racist but” crowd by this faux defence of disabled people.
I have a disgusting distant relative who always prefaces his misinformed opinions in this way. He recently tried to say that he has nothing against genuine asylum seekers (yeah right) but that all the people on the small boats are pedophiles coming here to groom children.

Blimey! That's a bit on the nose. Wow.

How else do we measure crime statistics? Every crime statistic, and benefit fraud is a crime, is measured by the criminals caught and convicted.

Maybe speak to DWP about it?

In the meantime is it not a good thing that PIP fraud is very low? Generally speaking the right people are getting the right help.

The next thing to tackle is the amount of PIP that goes unclaimed due to people in need being reluctant to submit themselves to the rigours of claiming PIP.

Really good point, thank you.

After my ' accident" l say accident but it was attempted murder.. my ex threw me under a moving bus and l was left horrifically disabled.
Back then PIP wasn't a benefit it was DLA ( Disabled living allowance) or DWA( Disabled working allowance).
I did claim DLA.. then it moved over to PIP .
I got awarded high rate for everything.
My ex got jailed and 16 years later l got nearly a 3 million pounds payout .
Now PIP isn't means tested and legally l could still claim it.. but l gave it up after my payout.
I now live off that.. l bought a house.. had it adapted.
I pay privately for my psychiatrist and Orthopedic Specialist and anyone else l need to see.
Yet a couple of years ago .. l got a letter from DWP saying l had been reported for going on holiday and had been seen in the supermarket pushing a trolley.
Obviously nothing came of it because l don't claim.
Just goes to show what some people think they know about other people's lives.
It also happened about the time my ex was released from prison.

I wasn’t disputing the fact that PIP fraud is zero, just wondering how anyone can say - definitively - that any type of benefit fraud is x or y per cent.

The ONS does it every year with all the other types of crimes..
Medical statistics do the same “50% of people will get cancer in their lifetime”
“1% of people have ASD”

All statistics are based on recorded incidences.

Very simply, they’ll have looked at all the cases where they’ve done checks, usually from being reported by other people. Or because they felt there was some inconsistencies during renewals.
And then look at the results: how many people were actually incorrectly claiming PIP or how many were pure fraud.

Theyll extrapolate then.
Just like they do when they say that there are several billions of pounds of unpaid tax (always unpaid, not fraud when it comes to companies….).

@Moier JFC, that’s horrific. What a despicable man.

I wonder what on Earth the DWP were doing writing to you when you weren’t in receipt of any benefits.

Just so people know you don't need permission to record meetings if it's for personal use. You can't share the recording but if it became necessary you could ask a court if you can submit a transcript of it.

That is absolutely awful @Moier.

We are not defending him. We are saying that you knowing one fraudster doesn't mean that there are legions of fraudsters. Your reading comprehension is as bad as your maths.

I am sure there are loads of people who play the system

13,000 is not "loads of people" in a nation of over 67 million. 13,000 is not even "loads of people" in a PIP claimant cohort of 2.6 million.

Moier I'm aware of what happened to you from other threads, it is horrendous. Just really glad you survived at least. The world is full of rotten people sadly.

I've been reported and periodically investigated, for working whilst disabled.
Err yes, it's the main purpose of my PIP award & says so on my claim! 😂

However I got a letter requiring me to attend a UC related interview.
Called them and was informed it was an interview under caution regarding me working. I said I wasn't required to, and they said yes I was.
I've never claimed UC and panicked that a fraudulent claim had been made in my name. They said even then, I could still potentially be liable for repayment.
Ended up really annoyed to discover they'd followed up a fraud report without even looking to see if there was an opened claim. There wasn't!
They then said having looked into my circumstances I should be claiming UC top ups, and couldn't quite get their heads round me asking them why I they thought I'd now want to.

The fraud rates are estimates based on detection rate and this is reflected in the cited error margin.

@Moier Your ex: WTF!

And 16 years to wait for compensation. JFC...

And people with learning disabilities are expected to navigate this kind of bungling incompetence from DWP.

@Moier that is awful.

Yep.