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PIP fraud is 0% says DWP

173 replies

Blackcats7 · 22/05/2024 11:48

The DWP latest report on benefit fraud states PIP fraud is 0% so all the mumsnetters who believe disabled people are scamming them out of their cash can sleep easy.

PIP fraud is 0% says DWP
PIP fraud is 0% says DWP
OP posts:
TwelveAngryWhiskers · 22/05/2024 14:07

As if having a condition like MS and a mum who appears to have it in for you isn’t awful enough, she now has a custodial sentence, tens of thousands of £ debt and her name and photos splashed about rags.

i just can’t see how this has happened based on the evidence in the article. It makes me frightened to go out.

ETA - just remembered another piece of ‘evidence’, that a colleague saw her dancing at an office party. WTF.

LadyKenya · 22/05/2024 14:08

Alltheyearround · 22/05/2024 13:58

Which I described to the nurse assessor. She blatently misrepresented and minimised the effects. I had the transcript sent to me in the post and I could not believe the things she had written.

A letter with a diagnosis sadly does not indicate the functional effects of a disability and CFS can range from bed bound to being able to do 50% of the normal you might expect.

Yes I understand. That is why It is down to the claimant to describe the functional effects of any disability though. No two people with the same disability will be impacted exactly the same. The only recourse for people not happy with their assessment report, is to expend energy taking it further.

IClaudine · 22/05/2024 14:12

Babycatsmummy · 22/05/2024 13:10

I've reported the same person for fraudulently claiming PIP at least 3 times now and the DWP do nothing about it! He's had multiple people reporting him!

How is it you have access to all his medical records @Babycatsmummy ?

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

IClaudine · 22/05/2024 14:12

TwattyMcFuckFace · 22/05/2024 11:53

Have there been many threads about fraudulent PIP claims?

Yes. Lots.

Babycatsmummy · 22/05/2024 14:15

IClaudine · 22/05/2024 14:12

How is it you have access to all his medical records @Babycatsmummy ?

Edited

He’s my ex partner who used to beat the crap out of me. I was with him for 6 years so no I don’t have access to his medical records but I know him very well.

OldTinHat · 22/05/2024 14:16

Going off piste, but what makes me laugh (not) is that they're now proposing to give vouchers instead of payments to PIP claimants.

A voucher won't pay for my carer or my gardener (not Kew Gardens but a patch of grass/brambles that I'm not able to mow).

PIP, a payment to assist your independence, does not mean 'go and buy a new bathroom and we'll reimburse you a fraction of it at some point in the future'. It's for extra support or costs associated with your disability.

PIP is so difficult to receive. I had my support worker with me during my assessment. I know of many people who had to go to tribunal.

IClaudine · 22/05/2024 14:19

Babycatsmummy · 22/05/2024 14:15

He’s my ex partner who used to beat the crap out of me. I was with him for 6 years so no I don’t have access to his medical records but I know him very well.

I am sorry he beat the crap out of you and he is clearly a complete scumbag.

But PIP is very hard to get so without knowing his current medical status you can't know for sure he is claiming fraudulently and is one of the 0.4% doing so.

LadyKenya · 22/05/2024 14:19

TwelveAngryWhiskers · 22/05/2024 14:07

As if having a condition like MS and a mum who appears to have it in for you isn’t awful enough, she now has a custodial sentence, tens of thousands of £ debt and her name and photos splashed about rags.

i just can’t see how this has happened based on the evidence in the article. It makes me frightened to go out.

ETA - just remembered another piece of ‘evidence’, that a colleague saw her dancing at an office party. WTF.

Edited

Why would it make you frightened to go out? People claiming PIP, are allowed to have a life.

IClaudine · 22/05/2024 14:25

Babycatsmummy · 22/05/2024 13:23

I can see nothing has been done, he’s just got a brand new mobility car which he lets his girlfriend drives and he has a van for his work, which he claims he can’t do because of his mental health, However his company is all registered on companies house and he has been doing this for 4 years!
not to mention he was previously done for benefit fraud and made to pay it all back, yet he still got accepted for more benefits. The system is crazy!!!

You can work and get PIP, so his work status is irrelevant. Other people can drive his Motability car in certain circumstances, it is not against the rules.

The PIP system is not crazy in terms of fraud, hence the 0.4% fraud rate.

It is crazy in terms of the system us very much pitted against the claimants. So much so there is now going to be an inquiry into it and the deaths associated with the system.

Babycatsmummy · 22/05/2024 14:34

IClaudine · 22/05/2024 14:19

I am sorry he beat the crap out of you and he is clearly a complete scumbag.

But PIP is very hard to get so without knowing his current medical status you can't know for sure he is claiming fraudulently and is one of the 0.4% doing so.

He’s been doing it for years. I went with him to his assessment and he lied about everything. He openly tells people there’s nothing wrong with him. He has a conviction for coercive and controlling behaviour and GBH, lied on his visa application and went to New York this year… good going for a man who claims he’s “ too anxious” to leave his routine.
like I said, he has already been done for claiming job seekers allowance when he was working for someone else.
a leopard never changes its spots.

Blackcats7 · 22/05/2024 14:42

@BorgQueen who can you pay to coach you how to claim PIP fraudulently? I am presuming you don’t mean disability rights specialists and advisory groups / charities who offer help to disabled people in completing the DWP War and Peace sized form?
Do you know criminals? Because anybody who teaches fraud is clearly a criminal.

OP posts:
IClaudine · 22/05/2024 14:46

I may be cynical, but I very much wonder why someone would go to the trouble of drip feeding flagging up their ex's case on a thread about the fact that PIP fraud is almost non-existent.

Especially when they don't seem to have much of a clue about PIP (i.e. not understanding it is an in work benefit and that there is no such thing as a "mobility car").

It is almost as though they could not stand the fact that so many of us who have been saying PIP fraud is miniscule have been proved right.

Babycatsmummy · 22/05/2024 14:50

IClaudine · 22/05/2024 14:46

I may be cynical, but I very much wonder why someone would go to the trouble of drip feeding flagging up their ex's case on a thread about the fact that PIP fraud is almost non-existent.

Especially when they don't seem to have much of a clue about PIP (i.e. not understanding it is an in work benefit and that there is no such thing as a "mobility car").

It is almost as though they could not stand the fact that so many of us who have been saying PIP fraud is miniscule have been proved right.

Edited

This is clearly aimed at me.
I understand what PIP is claimed for and I know when it is being abused. Faking an illness to your Dr in order to get support for PIP and claiming to the assessors you can’t work because your mental health is so bad you can’t even get up to shower most days or eat or take your medication is fraud. Forums are there for discussions, not everyone has to agree with the OP.
there are plenty of people who play the system, making it harder for those that genuinely need the help to claim.

IClaudine · 22/05/2024 14:53

there are plenty of people who play the system, making it harder for those that genuinely need the help to claim

Oh for fuck's sake. The DWP's own stats state that PIP fraud is 0%. Do the facts not matter to people?

amicissimma · 22/05/2024 14:55

It may be 0%, statistically unlikely as that appears.

However they are not reporting levels of fraud, they are reporting levels of detected fraud. Maybe the UC Fraud Department are more vigorous. Maybe not.

LiterallyOnFire · 22/05/2024 14:55

and that there is no such thing as a "mobility car

TBF, all cars are mobility cars. Wink

"Mobility car" always cracks me up.

IClaudine · 22/05/2024 14:56

LiterallyOnFire · 22/05/2024 14:55

and that there is no such thing as a "mobility car

TBF, all cars are mobility cars. Wink

"Mobility car" always cracks me up.

Ha! True.

IClaudine · 22/05/2024 14:58

amicissimma · 22/05/2024 14:55

It may be 0%, statistically unlikely as that appears.

However they are not reporting levels of fraud, they are reporting levels of detected fraud. Maybe the UC Fraud Department are more vigorous. Maybe not.

Why can't you just accept that the vast majority of PIP claimants are genuine?

ThreeDimensional · 22/05/2024 15:08

Babycatsmummy · 22/05/2024 13:23

I can see nothing has been done, he’s just got a brand new mobility car which he lets his girlfriend drives and he has a van for his work, which he claims he can’t do because of his mental health, However his company is all registered on companies house and he has been doing this for 4 years!
not to mention he was previously done for benefit fraud and made to pay it all back, yet he still got accepted for more benefits. The system is crazy!!!

PIP isn't dependent on income; you can run a multimillion pound company and claim PIP. It's supposed to help with the extra expense of having long term health issues or disabilities. Do you think having a mobility car is aspirational or something? Not sure it's something to be jealous of!

LiterallyOnFire · 22/05/2024 15:13

amicissimma · 22/05/2024 14:55

It may be 0%, statistically unlikely as that appears.

However they are not reporting levels of fraud, they are reporting levels of detected fraud. Maybe the UC Fraud Department are more vigorous. Maybe not.

I suspect that DWP know that erroneous refusal is more of an issue with PIP than successfully fraudulent claims.

They also know that UC is a lower bar to jump - it has to be because you can't leave people without subsistence income.

So they tailor their fraud estimates and anti-fraud measures accordingly.

Saying that, I'm still at work, still desultorily commenting and still haven't read the report, so I'm guessing.

Babycatsmummy · 22/05/2024 15:18

ThreeDimensional · 22/05/2024 15:08

PIP isn't dependent on income; you can run a multimillion pound company and claim PIP. It's supposed to help with the extra expense of having long term health issues or disabilities. Do you think having a mobility car is aspirational or something? Not sure it's something to be jealous of!

He is claiming PIP fraudulently, feigning an illness in order to get it. That is my point in posting in the first place fgs.
He does not need to claim any benefits at all because there is nothing wrong him. He claims housing benefit and has his post sent to a completely different address, he claims disability allowance for an old self inflicted leg injury to which he claims he can’t walk on and needs assistance yet goes to the gym everyday, has a window cleaning company where he climbs ladders etc etc, and claims PIP and has done for many years for mental health issues which he exaggerates ( as stated I was with him when he had his assessment and lived with the bloke for 5 out of the 6 years we were together) and openly brags how he’s “ effing the system over because he’s entitled to it”
so the 0% rate the DWP quote is a load of shit!

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 22/05/2024 15:26

Alltheyearround · 22/05/2024 13:50

Sometimes it is hard to get medical evidence. CFS all I had was a letter of diagnosis and some records of conversations I had with specialist OT.

The NHS CFS centre in Sheffield said they couldn't provide evidence of my functional abilities nor could the GP.

There are no medical tests for CFS, I had no scans, X rays etc. Its a diagnosis of exclusion.

Despite it being a medical condition which turned my life upside down (a home start volunteer had to look after DS when he was 3 and 4 as it was too dangerous when I crashed out and he was active) I had frustratingly few ways to evidence it.

I see CFS in Sheffield. They sent me a letter after an appointment listing all the things l couldn’t do ( which was many)

l’m keeping this for my review of PIP

IClaudine · 22/05/2024 15:30

so the 0% rate the DWP quote is a load of shit!

No one is saying that there is no fraud associated with PIP. DWP has a confidence interval on the data I think.

But the fact is the PIP fraud rate is really, really, really low, despite some of the disability benefit bashing tales that people post on here.

IClaudine · 22/05/2024 15:31

In fact, the State Pension fraud rate is higher than the PIP fraud rate!

Elleherd · 22/05/2024 15:34

TwelveAngryWhiskers · 22/05/2024 13:52

I’ve been thinking about the woman with MS since I read the article. I don’t really understand it.

They filmed her over three days, I believe, and saw she was out running. But people who claim PIP are allowed to have ‘good’ days. My understanding is to meet their criteria, ‘bad’ days must make up more than half of the days in a year. I assume her MS is relapsing-remitting so it’s going to be worse at some times than others. It also makes sense that she try to keep fit to help avoid the risk of relapse.

It really scared me to be honest. There must be more to the story.

There is more to it. She was in remission and kept quiet.
On her claim from 2004 to 2018 she had claimed she struggled to get out of bed or walk without support. She didn't report any change in circumstances during that period.
On her claim form she'd stated: ‘I prefer someone with me at all times when I am outdoors because I have poor balance. There is a risk of falling and dizzy spells.

Her change in health from highly dependent disabled to in remission and able to run alone, is dated as having started around April 2009. She admitted running around four times a week.

It's a substantial change of health circumstances which she failed to notify for nine years, not a minor blip.

Even if she's was entirely telling the truth when she claimed the investigators filmed her during a period when she was fitter, doing three mile runs in under 30 mins, and actually her previous running was much slower and less frequent, she still needed to report to DWP that her lack of balance and inability to walk without support had became an ability to run, alone, at whatever pace, and accept it would impact her claim.

I came close to getting into trouble because I failed to tell DWP how often I was hospitalized, because I saw it as part and parcel of being disabled.
I thought I only had to report it, if it was long enough, or frequently enough for me to not be entitled to PIP and had only reported those. Fortunately they accepted it as a legitimate misunderstanding, gave me a slapped wrist and I now report every admission whether it affects my claim or not.