PIP fraud is 0% says DWP

[Blackcats7]

The DWP latest report on benefit fraud states PIP fraud is 0% so all the mumsnetters who believe disabled people are scamming them out of their cash can sleep easy.

Yep.
Because PIP is a benefit and there have been many threads on how people are benefit scroungers cheating the system.

People are so determined in their prejudice that even the most unsympathetic and disability denying DWP’s own figures are not enough for them.
I wonder what would be?
Torture for all disabled people by an independent gestapo until we admit our evil fraudulent ways perhaps?

This is why I don't talk to people about my private business like that. Too many people are judging about things that they do not know, or think they know. I never cease to be amazed about the level of knowledge some people seem to know about their neighbours, neighbours great niece 3x removed, and Mavis down the lane.

Thank you.

So had she been in remission for 9 years, or was she having relapses during this time? (Not expecting you to know the answer, just thinking out loud!)

Do you report changes over the phone? I wish there was some sort of electronic way to do it. It was an ordeal the last time I had to report a change. I ended up having to write to them and send a document, which I sent special delivery complete with a return special delivery stamped envelope (cost about £18 in total) so I could have the document back. That was December and I still haven’t received it. I’ve tried calling them a number of times. I managed to get through to someone after almost 2 hours on hold who told me they would be sending it back, but never did. I dread having to contact them about anything.

That is absolute rubbish.

The state pension is not subject to fraud at all - if you read the 'report' it states Pension credit (the means-tested benefit equal to the state pension for those who have not paid enough NI and have no savings/other pension) has a fraud rate.

It looks like she was in remission, but I only know what the press reported not the fuller details of the court.
I think if she'd been in remission but with relapses it would have been her defense and she would have probably got a suspended sentence.
She was also called in over having an online business which suggest UC as well. She gave a no comment interview at a job center.

Yes I use the phone. You have to just steel yourself and generally you'll get through within three hours, but can go whole days on hold, and then they close the line and you have to start again the next day.
Generally I send copies of documents until asked for an original, as quite often you can then get the original verified in a job center.

Um @ruby1957 Appendix 1 clearly shows State Pension fraud rate 0.1% and fraud value £80m.

PIP fraud rate 0% fraud value £0.

State pension fraud is likely to be stuff like not declaring a death in a timely manner or claiming NI years incorrectly

Actually, it's people like YOU who make it hard for us to claim.

Not the hordes of mythical fraudsters you seem to want to believe in.

You are the problem. The reason for the political will to demonize the disabled is to placate people like you.

Yeah, people have been prosecuted for not reporting deaths and continuing to draw the SP of the dead person.

Here you go @ruby1957

Would you like to apologise? 😊

Hoards of??? I’m just one person. You are just clearly ignorant to what I’ve been saying, about one person! You don’t know this man, I do and I know the facts, I know he’s playing the system and the proof is that he’s been prosecuted for benefit previously!

Jesus Christ you need to get a grip and actually read what I’ve put instead of making it up

so the 0% rate the DWP quote is a load of shit!

You cannot extrapolate that based on the one person you know who claims fraudulently.

There would only have to be 201 PIP claimants for one fraudulent claimant to yield a fraud rate of less than 0.5%, which would round to 0% if you wanted to report integer percentages. There are around 2.6m PIP claimants so anything under 13,000 fraudulent claimants would yield a fraud rate of less than 0.5%.

If those 13,000 PIP frauds each have 20 friends, that's 260,000 people who know someone who claims PIP fraudulently. There's still 2.6m PIP claimants, over 99% of whom are genuinely entitled to it.

I’m literally giving an example I’m not saying everyone is a fraudster! Why do people in this site take things so personally??

You said "there are plenty of people who play the system..." and you apparently know this based on your single example which you just HAD to inform us of in order to debunk the stats quoted on this thread.

I stand by my assessment of your character. People like you ALWAYS claim they are against fraud for the sake of the genuine claimants. It's bollocks. That's not the reason. Your bitterness is evident in every line you have written.

It's spelled "hordes" btw. A "hoard" is something else.

Exactly, and despite what many people believe you don't get dla awarded for a diagnosis of autism . The child has to have significant care and or mobility needs greater than the average child. One of my children who is autistic I have not claimed dla for because they do not qualify, of course they have challenges due to their ASD but I am thankful not significant enough to meet the criteria for dla.

You claimed that the 0% rounded fraud rate was, and I quote, "bullshit" based on the one person you know. I have carefully explained to you the mathematical principles that can lead to a very low rate of fraud being reported as 0% because of rounding.

Absolutely nothing in my post indicated that I disbelieve you when you say that you know a PIP fraud, and indeed I explicitly acknowledged that there could be up to 13,000 PIP frauds nationwide.

What about my post caused you to think that I had taken your post personally, as opposed to merely being disappointed by your lack of mathematical literacy?

Well actually my dd does spend her pip on horses.

Equine therapy is excellent for autistic people. It's cheaper than a human therapist.

I don't get PIP, but if I did, I'd use it to subsidise DCat for the same reason.

Fraud is specifically defined in the document I linked to:

Claims where all three of the following conditions apply:

• the conditions for receipt of benefit, or the rate of benefit in payment, are not being met
• the claimant can reasonably be expected to be aware of the effect on their entitlement
• benefit payment stops or reduces as a result of the claim review

So if a case fails on one of the above points, it won't be categorised as fraud.

Eurgh you are one of those who get kicks out of correcting grammar.

I am sure there are loads of people who play the system, I didn’t say anyone on here did though?? So why get so defensive? I gave an example of one person I know personally who is and the keyboard warriors come at me as if they are defending him!

Maybe thats something to do with the fact that they are reluctant to actually give applicants PIP?

Reluctant is an under statement.

There are only around 50% of claims that are receiving PIP.
Some of those will go to tribunals (not all. It’s long, and stressful. Many people simply give up) and then 70% of claimants will then get PIP!

Which actually shows that most people who put a claim in are justified to do so. I suspect the many hoops you need to get through simply stops anyone from trying ‘just in case’.
Rather many people who should get PIP don’t even bother to try thinking they’ll never get it.

Honestly if you don't understand why disabled people have had enough of the persistent behavior of people like you, to the point of having a go back, then it's hard to know how to get through to you. Disabled posters are beyond exhausted with it.
You have seen me explaining how someone with MS was guilty of over claiming.

Another poster has explained how the maths works and that it doesn't mean there are no cases ever.

Your ex may well be a benefit cheat, you may well be vengeful, ablest or a Tory bot. No one here knows, but the effect is like the threads where people are talking about the fact backing up the need to believe women or children who have been attacked, and someone arrives in their midst, yelling 'you can't trust them I know a poor bloke who was lied about! Therefore I bet loads of women lie about it. Lets make this thread about the few not the many!'
'oh why are people pissed of, I didn't say anyone on here was like that- just saying..!'

I agree, but sadly if you are visibly disabled in a wheelchair they make up what they don't know, and report you to all sorts of agencies, assuming you are claiming from them and if they throw enough mud, some of it will stick.

That is sad that has happened to you@Elleherd . I do not know why some people are so spiteful. I don't know what would compel someone to behave that way, and cause hardship to someone obviously disabled.