PIP fraud is 0% says DWP

[Blackcats7]

The DWP latest report on benefit fraud states PIP fraud is 0% so all the mumsnetters who believe disabled people are scamming them out of their cash can sleep easy.

I was naive enough to imagine that official crime statistics, referred to the actual known numbers of whatever category it is. Not what could be the actual numbers if we knew about every single one.

I work in PIP assessment, I definitely have no bonus structure to my role. Also its a functional assessment, so many people get caught up with evidence which I personally have only ever seen used against the claimant. If I was claiming I would only submit the PiP2 form

@Isit7yet the issue with relying on the assessment is that it's so subjective.
My assessor clearly had no idea that there's a difference between cognitive issues and learning difficulties, and said because I was degree educated before becoming ill that they disagree with my reporting of memory and concentration difficulties.
On a phone assessment they said I showed no sign of chronic pain (that was actually evidenced in my paperwork).

I totally understand the frustration. I think the problem truly lies within the PIP criteria. So many issues with it. For example if I carried out the assessment with you and you had minimal help I would never be able to score you for concentration or memory issues. It would be sent back from audit and I would be made to change it. We don't trick anyone into memory tests but being able to complete the assessment shows that the claimant does not have a significant restriction with those issues. Even though I believe they have those issues

But not being able to complete the assessment means you haven't covered several criteria, certainly in my case I was made to feel that I had to continue even when I said I was too tired or my claim would fail.
It's definitely "damned if you do, damned if you don't"

There’s a guy in my block of flats a known drug dealer in the area who also gets pip he is out driving about all day always in designer stuff gets pip for depression yet in the pub all weekend.
i know a girl who gets it for autism she is shopping in shops the pub lives a completely normal day to day life (was my best friend and I lived with her 6 years ago she is fully able to work a normal job and live a normal life) she got a back payment of £8grand and posted the payment on Facebook. She’s been reported loads and it’s never investigated.

She’s shopping in shops? Heaven forfend 😱

Not sure if you're being serious or attempting humour, but if the former, so what? Disabled people drive cars, shop at shops, go to pubs, and, heaven forbid, commit crimes.

PIP isn't about whether you can work

What a load of twaddle. I don't believe a word of it.

I didn't realise PIP claimants are not allowed to go to the pub or the shops. You learn something new every day!

Reported for what exactly ?
Autism is a disability ,how it impacts a person varies greatly but its still a disability ,I assume she's has the evidence and had the correct assessment ti say she qualify, s

A back payment of £8k implies that either she's had a very long wait to be awarded standard PIP or a shorter wait but higher needs.Either way I'd feel sorry for her rather than jealous of her back payment.

i laughed myself at my example of the shopping in shops but one the drug dealer tells everyone I have bipolar and he said to me in person at the pub your stills for not claiming pip your entitled I make a killing off it claming depression. True words I know a women who is nearly bed bound with back pain (I don’t know her condition) and was refused pip I’m not saying everyone on it claims fraud but people do!
my ex friend yeh shopping was a bad example but she lives a very normal life. She could easily work (we used to work in a strip club together) she also used to do tax scams and stuff and has a Facebook fake ticket scam she has done for years selling concert tickets that she doesn’t have on ticket shop and stuff and very rarely has ti pay back money.

I live on a rough estate always has but I’m so suprised how people are saying it doesn’t happen. Both of these openly boast about their pip.

i know people refused it my children’s dad had awful epielpsy and mental health issues bad enough he would lose jobs as he would sezure for days not able to work and he didn’t get it. A neighbour with back issues who generally has to sit on our stairs after every few.

I know about hidden disabilities I have adhd and bipolar I don’t work currently as signed off due to a manic riposted I don’t claim pip and never tried too (nog above it just don’t need to) my son has a hidden disability which luclily except his heigh has no impact on his life.

but people do fraud it you can pay to have experts help you pass.

She could easily work

PIP has nothing to do with ability to work. Some PIP recipients work, some don't.

Both of these openly boast about their pip

So odd that all the tales about fraudsters involve them openly boasting...

Always. It's quite astonishing tbh.

@Isit7yet Thank you for posting, your input is appreciated. I preface this with apologies to decent assessors, that inevitably it's the bad ones that get talked about most. I work, and claim PIP to allow it. I'm multiply disabled and find working while obviously disabled seems to raise suspicions.

IME as someone in a wheelchair, is you can be treated by the assessor as perfectly capable of walking if you wanted to. It's really hard to deal with.
The same is true of living with the effects of unstable Crohns, and having an indwelling catheter.
DWP had all my medical evidence showing functional difficulties and why, but one assessor opened their computer and informed me my disability was MH, then wanted to focus the majority of the interview on MH issues I don't have!
I'm multiply disabled but only physically. "No" and "this doesn't apply to me," should allow us to move on to relevant questions, not run us out of time.

That indwelling catheterization was a necessity decided on by the hospital, wasn't enough for one assessor, he needed to understand the exact reasons why? when this would end? and why wasn't I seeing someone to speed up ending it? The implication all the way through was it wasn't needed, and it was humiliating.
For me there's no end, and nothing improvable, but he insisted I was incorrect.
He also told me that I categorically didn't have a frequently frozen shoulder and my GP was wrong, and therefore he was believed I could lift both arms above my head and behind my back at all times.
So there's now an MRI scan on my file showing adhesive shoulder capsulitis and how bad the build up of scar tissue is, why they can't operate, and an explanation of exactly why I'm indwelling catheter dependent for life.

Why did the medication I was on not control and stop the effects of Crohns?
I upset the assessor by saying it was a conversation to be had with my gastro team. He demanded I explain while making it clear he entirely disbelieved me.
So now there's a letter in my medical evidence from a senior consultant explaining reality of treatment of Chrons for some even with Biologic treatment.

Being able to say please read medical evidence page X, gives the right to refuse to answer every assertion, or the 'nudge attempts' that effects must be lesser than stated, or easily fixable by the claimant, without giving the assessor the right to say they found no evidence of a need.

I appreciate not all assessors do this, but the long-term impact of those that do on disabled people, is huge.

At this point I have incontrovertible proof of all the whys, and have been given a long term award. I should be happy and relaxed, but I'm just waiting for the next blindside.

Maybe they find claiming that's their income source is a good more acceptable cover for smack dealing to kids, street prostitution, or scamming the vulnerable.

(Am also from the rough side of the tracks, and there are hierarchies of wrong.)

I always wonder how people know so much about other people's health and why they claim pip. I mean no one's going to openly say they claim because their bowels and bladder don't work properly.

There's a lot of truth in that. I'm open about it on here because I'm trying to advocate for it being less humiliating, but no, not in real life. I'm very private.

People can scam PIP. It happens.

That isn't the same thing as most PIP claimants being genuine and that it can be extremely hard to get.

Being able to go to the pub is so important that my DS special school has a module in their life skills training on going to the pub. i would anticipate many of his fellow pupils being eligible for PIP when adult.

Absolute bollocks!! I personally know two people who are fraudulently claiming PIP! They have conditions but are not as seriously affected by them as they claim! Neither had assessment in person but on the phone and they know exactly what to say to get the maximum awards! I also know a parent whose child has been diagnosed with ADHD because of his behaviour but its far more likely he has attachment disorder caused by his mothers inability to parent properly and drink problem ( she obviously told CAMHS nothing about her actions when he was being diagnosed). Finally my dc is epileptic and claims pip, they have only ever been assessed on the phone, provided no evidence at all apart from her GPs details and consultants details neither of whom have ever been contacted by DWP ( we asked them).

I'm on a DLA Facebook group and undoubtedly there are people that put in claims for very tenuous reasons with little or no evidence ,I see it daily
They rarely succeed though ,it frustrate, s me as it clogs up the system I think yhey genuinely believe it's easy to claim but it isn't and they complain when their claim is rejected I also think they join the groups to get tips on what to put in their claims ,but that's a whole other thread .