PIP fraud is 0% says DWP

[Blackcats7]

The DWP latest report on benefit fraud states PIP fraud is 0% so all the mumsnetters who believe disabled people are scamming them out of their cash can sleep easy.

They don't get bonuses. That said a lot of people DO say things that don't match their medical evidence and that's why they get denied.

This can't be true, every other person on MN knows someone who is definitly fraudulently claiming PIP and spending all the money on brand new cars and 14 holidays a year.

& horses. Don't forget the horses. 😩😂

They don't tell you if anythings been done

Whilst I'm sure it's low, it won't be 0% partly because I know a family who are claiming fraudulently to the extent that they work the system, know what to say. He cannot believe that i don't claim as I have the same medical condition as his wife, but manage it and it doesn't meet the threshold, I'm honest.

They've managed to claim without substantial medical evidence?

I can see nothing has been done, he’s just got a brand new mobility car which he lets his girlfriend drives and he has a van for his work, which he claims he can’t do because of his mental health, However his company is all registered on companies house and he has been doing this for 4 years!
not to mention he was previously done for benefit fraud and made to pay it all back, yet he still got accepted for more benefits. The system is crazy!!!

Exactly.

I had swathes of medical evidence, and I'm on 10 different medications, have neuro reports, doctor reports, physio reports, surgeon reports, and it still took 2 years and an independent tribunal to get mine.

Yet all these people on here rock up and lie and get it handed to them on gold plate apparently.

You may not meet the threshold, but your family member may do. The PIP assessors do not just take people's words, they have to have medical evidence.

There may have been a point when specifically ATOS was running some sort of bonus system, but I suspect now it's got a lot to do with their targets as much as anything.
An ex assesor put up an interesting article about what happened when they tried to write up fairly and how reports were repeatedly returned to be re-written, and how that affected everyone's work load, and office popularity.

Which ever way you turn it around I'm comprehensively visibly disabled with records from birth and stamped 'unsuitable for adoption and fostering' because of it in childhood. That's before it got significantly worse later.

I was refused attendance at my local medical examination center (2 streets away) which was proud of their figures for refusal, as too complex. So quite why later a sports therapist was chosen to interview me, clean across the other side of London (bypassing many other centers) I don't know.

He was a terrifying nightmare, and refused to look at supporting medical evidence of why I couldn't do what he was demanding.
I made a formal complaint about his very aggressive behavior, and lies.
TBF once they realized I had the lot illicitly on tape, and just how bad it was, and frankly what he was trying to claim required a medical miracle that x-rays could immediately disprove, I got apologized to, and was encouraged to accept an immediate phone reassessment direct with a case handler, looking at the medical evidence as they talked to me.

Certainly the nurse I had wrote things I had not said and described things I did not do within assessment.

The nurse I knew told me they were told that at the recruitment day they would be offered incentives such as extras to wage for every claim that failed.

I can only report what I have been told or what I have experienced.

Why would a nurse make that up?

😂M&S not so bad.

Sometimes it is hard to get medical evidence. CFS all I had was a letter of diagnosis and some records of conversations I had with specialist OT.

The NHS CFS centre in Sheffield said they couldn't provide evidence of my functional abilities nor could the GP.

There are no medical tests for CFS, I had no scans, X rays etc. Its a diagnosis of exclusion.

Despite it being a medical condition which turned my life upside down (a home start volunteer had to look after DS when he was 3 and 4 as it was too dangerous when I crashed out and he was active) I had frustratingly few ways to evidence it.

I’ve been thinking about the woman with MS since I read the article. I don’t really understand it.

They filmed her over three days, I believe, and saw she was out running. But people who claim PIP are allowed to have ‘good’ days. My understanding is to meet their criteria, ‘bad’ days must make up more than half of the days in a year. I assume her MS is relapsing-remitting so it’s going to be worse at some times than others. It also makes sense that she try to keep fit to help avoid the risk of relapse.

It really scared me to be honest. There must be more to the story.

😂M&S not so bad.

This isn't any disability. This is a creamy, velvety, dream of a disability....

Why would you make it up is the question I’m asking? 🙄
there’s no incentives….just a shit job where no one stays for long

That was your medical evidence@Alltheyearround . The letter of diagnosis. The rest is how it personally affects you, in your day to day life.

Of course there is fraud. You can literally pay people to coach you into getting it.
The far more serious issue is how genuine claimants can’t get it without a hugely stressful fight and appeals process.
DH volunteers with a Veterans centre, there are double amputees reassessed periodically - do they think limbs can magically regrow?

That's what I should have done - recorded it secretly.

They wanted me to bring not one but two CD recorders and blank CDs.

Couldn't make it up.

I did get access to said equipment via work AV tech and PIP assessment centre agreed to recording day before the interview but then they claimed they had no record of this conversation and the nurse refused to have the session recorded at all. I had taken an hour to get there, I was exhausted and I had taken time off work. So I decided to continue, the only other option was to cancel and rearrange which I think she took a punt on us not doing.

It's meant to be how you are half the time. I don't remember being asked about how it varies. She just went off how I was then.

Which I described to the nurse assessor. She blatently misrepresented and minimised the effects. I had the transcript sent to me in the post and I could not believe the things she had written.

A letter with a diagnosis sadly does not indicate the functional effects of a disability and CFS can range from bed bound to being able to do 50% of the normal you might expect.

I can well believe the utter misogynist who did my assessment lied just for shits and giggles. Horrible man. But more generally, I'd assume that they are paid to do so.

I was asked about both good days and bad days.

so I don’t understand, based on the articles I read, what the woman with MS has done wrong. They said she didn’t report her improvement, but how do they know she had improved and wasn’t just having a good day? Are you supposed to report every good day? when you have a fluctuating condition where does it end? How often are you supposed to contact them? Getting through to PIP is near impossible. People wait hours on hold only to be cut off. I was reading about a man who spent a total of 49 hours on hold to them just to update his address.

They weren't just relying on the surveillance footage, AFAIK, @TwelveAngryWhiskers

I seem to remember someone known to her (her mum?) gave evidence that she passed her and saw her running "most day", but yes it is a concern. The way prosecutions are prepared and pursued seems to sometimes be at slight variance with the way the benefits are run. See also Carers Allowance.

I read the part about her mum and thought it was very odd. It made me wonder if her mum had been the one to report her. I mean, it still can’t be enough evidence - three days of filming and her mum’s testimony that she thinks she’s running on a treadmill most days?

If it is, it’s bloody terrifying.