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Likely consequences of this benefit fraud

183 replies

beefmassaman · 10/03/2024 16:35

I'm looking for some advice regarding this situation and if anyone knows what the likely outcome will be for my family member.

I have a family member who I saw yesterday who confided in me about their situation and seems to be in a bit of a mess emotionally over the whole thing. She's very anxious about what will happen to her. I'm going to refer to her as Marie.

Marie is divorced and has three children in full time education from that marriage. A few years after the marriage ended she met someone else and unexpectedly fell pregnant. The father (I'll refer to him as John) wanted her to keep the baby as he'd never had the opportunity before and at 43 felt it was his time. Marie agreed.

Shortly after they had agreed to have their baby Marie moved with her children in to a property owned by her boyfriend. The house had a market value of about £1250pcm and as Marie didn't want to live with John at present he offered to let it to her for a reduced sum of £950pcm. She says she insisted on paying rent so that she had autonomy over parenting her children and her own space for her family.

A few months later the baby was born and Marie began claiming Universal Credit. She says at present she gets about £1500 every four weeks. She doesn't know how much is for housing.

Anyway, to cut a long story short, John has practically moved himself in. I've heard her say to him before that he's not permitted to stay over at her house because the DWP would come down on her. It's fallen on deaf ears and I think she's buried her head in the sand over the whole thing.

She showed me her online banking and she pays ALL of the bills and utilities and 70% of the food she estimates, but as John has now moved himself in she's reduced her rent payment to him to about £500 a month, occasionally paid in cash. Sometimes paid by bank transfer. But he will often send it back to her for some reason.

Now she's been asked to take part in a random entitlement check and has three problems.

1). Landlord is the father of her child, not allowed as far as we're aware.

2.) He's adamant about them being a 'family' and spending as much time with his son as possible, putting her in a position where she's breaking the law.

3). Having been asked to produce 3 months of bank statements there is virtually no record of rent paid there. Money often passes backwards and forwards between them in that John will lend her money but she showed me that she always pays it back.

Basically it all looks like what it is as far as I can see and it's not going to be good for her! Anyone know what will happen to her next?

OP posts:
beefmassaman · 10/03/2024 17:06

PiggieWig · 10/03/2024 17:00

The best thing she can do is be honest. If he has another address it can be a grey area. I had similar before I was married and I spoke to them about it.
However my boyfriend was not my children's father or landlord. That's where the problem lies.

Is the £500 rent reduction in lieu of maintenance or does he pay that separately?

Yes, she's been really stupid to not come clean about that. She said that when she moved in she was asked if anyone living with her is related to her landlord. She ticked 'no' because at the time it was the truth. God only knows why she thought she could keep up the charade. 🤦‍♀️

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Whyforartthou · 10/03/2024 17:07

beefmassaman · 10/03/2024 17:06

Yes, she's been really stupid to not come clean about that. She said that when she moved in she was asked if anyone living with her is related to her landlord. She ticked 'no' because at the time it was the truth. God only knows why she thought she could keep up the charade. 🤦‍♀️

Does she actually realise how serious it is?

How long has she been receiving uc and do you know if the amount is over 5k?

Flatleak · 10/03/2024 17:08

Putting aside the benefit issues, how about the fact that's she and John are living together yet she pays all utilities AND £500 in rent to him?!?

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

TitaniasAss · 10/03/2024 17:09

She needs to be up front about this, they're not fools and if she keeps trying to pull over their eyes it'll be much worse.

beefmassaman · 10/03/2024 17:10

@Whyforartthou

Yes I think so. She was pacing and crying yesterday. The story was so garbled and disjointed I had to take notes to understand. 😳

She's terrified that she's going to prison and her name will be in the local paper as a benefit cheat. I didn't know what to say as I just don't know what the outcome will be!
She said that she hopes they just make her pay it back but I'm not sure she won't get a criminal record out of this.

OP posts:
Morph22010 · 10/03/2024 17:10

Flatleak · 10/03/2024 17:08

Putting aside the benefit issues, how about the fact that's she and John are living together yet she pays all utilities AND £500 in rent to him?!?

The taxpayer pays £500 a month rent to him

SneakySnakeEx · 10/03/2024 17:11

I didn't think you could claim the housing element if renting from a family member which he effectively is.

I think she knew what she was doing.

FunnyFinch · 10/03/2024 17:12

Morph22010 · 10/03/2024 17:10

The taxpayer pays £500 a month rent to him

but goes back in op’s pocket as he transfers back to her

this should be a slam dunk for the dwp. 🥳

Whinge · 10/03/2024 17:13

She's terrified that she's going to prison and her name will be in the local paper as a benefit cheat.

Really. That's what she's worried about. Her name in the paper, not what will happen to her children? 🙄

uncomfortablydumb53 · 10/03/2024 17:13

This is calculated fraud, not just an oversight
You're obliged to inform them of changes and she thought she'd get away with it
Do they have any joint accounts and do neighbours etc regard them as a couple?..
she will be made to repay monies claimed since her circumstances changed, but wouldn't get a custodial sentence, possibly suspended
She's made her bed( with John)....

Whyforartthou · 10/03/2024 17:13

beefmassaman · 10/03/2024 17:10

@Whyforartthou

Yes I think so. She was pacing and crying yesterday. The story was so garbled and disjointed I had to take notes to understand. 😳

She's terrified that she's going to prison and her name will be in the local paper as a benefit cheat. I didn't know what to say as I just don't know what the outcome will be!
She said that she hopes they just make her pay it back but I'm not sure she won't get a criminal record out of this.

That's what happens, they will put big cases in local papers to highlight the seriousness to prevent people doing it so she's right to be concerned about that and if she's prosecuted, she'll get a criminal record and have to pay it back plus more. So the majority of her fears are extremely likely to happen. It won't be custodial as violent criminals even get suspended sentences these days

When is her interview

FunnyFinch · 10/03/2024 17:14

beefmassaman · 10/03/2024 17:06

Yes, she's been really stupid to not come clean about that. She said that when she moved in she was asked if anyone living with her is related to her landlord. She ticked 'no' because at the time it was the truth. God only knows why she thought she could keep up the charade. 🤦‍♀️

She said that when she moved in she was asked if anyone living with her is related to her landlord. She ticked 'no' because at the time it was the truth.

well clearly it wasn’t the truth.

Shortly after they had agreed to have their baby Marie moved with her children in to a property owned by her boyfriend

FunnyFinch · 10/03/2024 17:14

this is very substantial fraud.

i would be surprised if this isn’t picked up by the local rag

SneakySnakeEx · 10/03/2024 17:15

So she's claiming probably most of the 950 in stated in the tenancy agreement of housing element. Yet paying 500 and pocketing 450.

beefmassaman · 10/03/2024 17:15

Whinge · 10/03/2024 17:13

She's terrified that she's going to prison and her name will be in the local paper as a benefit cheat.

Really. That's what she's worried about. Her name in the paper, not what will happen to her children? 🙄

Well being publicly outed probably won't be great for her kids. And being put in prison will definitely not be a good outcome for them either!

OP posts:
FunnyFinch · 10/03/2024 17:15

how old is the baby now (presuming still a baby?)

mitogoshi · 10/03/2024 17:19

This is straightforward fraud, she's claiming uc as a single person with children and she's not. All the time he wasn't living there, but staying over fairly frequently, it wasn't strictly legal but she may have got away with a warning but the minute he moved in and she reduced the rent she should have alerted uc and put in a joint claim or closed it if not eligible.

SoloMumming · 10/03/2024 17:21

beefmassaman · 10/03/2024 17:10

@Whyforartthou

Yes I think so. She was pacing and crying yesterday. The story was so garbled and disjointed I had to take notes to understand. 😳

She's terrified that she's going to prison and her name will be in the local paper as a benefit cheat. I didn't know what to say as I just don't know what the outcome will be!
She said that she hopes they just make her pay it back but I'm not sure she won't get a criminal record out of this.

But… she IS a benefit’s cheat? She’s a scrounger and I hope she DOES get a record and named and shamed. People like her are what make it difficult and stigmatising for genuine claimants.

FunnyFinch · 10/03/2024 17:24

mitogoshi · 10/03/2024 17:19

This is straightforward fraud, she's claiming uc as a single person with children and she's not. All the time he wasn't living there, but staying over fairly frequently, it wasn't strictly legal but she may have got away with a warning but the minute he moved in and she reduced the rent she should have alerted uc and put in a joint claim or closed it if not eligible.

it’s even worse than that!

NotCute · 10/03/2024 17:24

She won't get a custodial sentence.
Very unlikely to get a mention in the paper.

She will have to pay it back in its entirety, plus court costs and victim surcharge.
She will be charged with fraud and get a criminal record.

Whyforartthou · 10/03/2024 17:25

NotCute · 10/03/2024 17:24

She won't get a custodial sentence.
Very unlikely to get a mention in the paper.

She will have to pay it back in its entirety, plus court costs and victim surcharge.
She will be charged with fraud and get a criminal record.

'very unlikely to get a mention in the local paper'

What makes you think that?

beefmassaman · 10/03/2024 17:25

mitogoshi · 10/03/2024 17:19

This is straightforward fraud, she's claiming uc as a single person with children and she's not. All the time he wasn't living there, but staying over fairly frequently, it wasn't strictly legal but she may have got away with a warning but the minute he moved in and she reduced the rent she should have alerted uc and put in a joint claim or closed it if not eligible.

I agree that she's been incredibly stupid and quite greedy too.
But they are not living together as a couple. He has another place of residence which presumably he pays mortgage and bills for. She pays her utilities and bills and gives him £500 rent because he gives her £450 child support. She was stupid not to just pay the full £950 and leave herself a paper trail, but yesterday she was harping on about 'why send him £950 when he owes me £450 every month' 🙄

OP posts:
ilovebreadsauce · 10/03/2024 17:26

beefmassaman · 10/03/2024 16:55

Again, not sure. I will have to check with her. But she said that the landlord's name and address and the youngest child's father's name and address are exactly the same. I don't know if she's actually said 'my landlord is the father of my child'

They don't get on very well these days and I know they don't share a bed when he stays over. He had nothing registered at her address because he has his 'own' address. I think.

I think she will be fine then.they have to prove he was living there.

Whyforartthou · 10/03/2024 17:26

beefmassaman · 10/03/2024 17:25

I agree that she's been incredibly stupid and quite greedy too.
But they are not living together as a couple. He has another place of residence which presumably he pays mortgage and bills for. She pays her utilities and bills and gives him £500 rent because he gives her £450 child support. She was stupid not to just pay the full £950 and leave herself a paper trail, but yesterday she was harping on about 'why send him £950 when he owes me £450 every month' 🙄

It doesn't matter if they are a couple. Uc is income of the household, she's made a real mess for herself

Dwp have fraud teams, surveillance, all sorts so don't think things won't be able to be proven

beefmassaman · 10/03/2024 17:30

I've got to go now because my break is over. I'll give her a call tomorrow morning and tell her to prepare for the worst. Anything else will be a bonus. Thanks all.

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