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Original poster

15yo boys - do we expect less of them than girls?

162 replies

3Tunes · 17/12/2023 08:41

We were chatting about a meet up she’d just been to, and dd(15) said something like “I just expect basic competence, I mean, that’s not even the bar, it’s way below the bar, but most of them just don’t have it”.

So I asked her what she meant, and it was stuff like able to organise a meet up (the girls always do it), to turn up with a secret Santa gift that they opted in to doing four weeks ago, to navigate (with a phone) and actually find places rather than walk for ages and then stand around looking puzzled, to work out how to pay in a shop which didn’t take cards.

Which made me wonder, is it just this group, or is it something societal where we expect 15yo girls to generally organise themselves and work things out, but where boys are still more looked after and supported? I nearly posted on Feminism chat, but I figured I’d only get answers around socialisation of boys there, and wondered what other people thought.

OP posts:
Morewineplease10 · 17/12/2023 08:56

I don't have boys but it doesn't surprise me to hear this. I imagine many people expect less of men and boys in general without even being conscious of this.

FrenchandSaunders · 17/12/2023 08:58

They tend to mature a bit later.

Allthecatseverywhereallatonce · 17/12/2023 09:00

As the mother of a dd 15 and ds 14 it feels like my ds is just more laid back, less bothered by things. I treat them the same so I have never expected more from dd as a female although, she would agree with what your dd said.

I did read something about the different rates of development of the female and male mind. Apparently the male brain develops for a lot longer after the female brain is fully developed.
It is a very interesting discussion though, some believe we subconsciously treat our boys differently to girls, as a child my dm did make me do more of 'womens' work so ironing, making meals etc.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

Christmas
TinPanSally · 17/12/2023 09:04

I have several teenagers, including a 16 year old son. I pointed out a few months ago that the kind of weaponised incompetence displayed by some of his friends is an unattractive feature, and will be unlikely to make for happy relationships in the future.

Since then, he has chosen me a beautifully thoughtful present for my birthday, cleaned his room, and regularly cooks meals for the family, following recipes from the internet.

DelilahBucket · 17/12/2023 09:08

I have a 15 year old DS. No DD so can't compare the two but I am determined he won't grow up to be a mollycoddled, useless man, incapable of doing anything. His dad is like that (my ex) 😂

Marblessolveeverything · 17/12/2023 09:09

Whether we like it or not the majority of females develop quicker than males. Also my just 16 year old would have no interest in what you describe. he and his mates would value each other's company without assigning gift buying tasks. But for a quiet life engage!

What I would say is my experience of 15-16 lads, are very helpful and get on with giving a hand to family. I also know that typically we don't have the more dramatic social media issues nor friendship dynamics, but that could be just my experience.

Marblessolveeverything · 17/12/2023 09:13

I meant to add my DS always has been hands on with housework etc. only asks for help the odd time if he is unsure of something tricky. I would note his values differs from his some of his female friends. And would consider him emotionally mature but giving no care of some societal expectations - which makes me jealous.

Original poster
3Tunes · 17/12/2023 09:18

Loving your approach @TinPanSally !

I do wonder if there is some biological / developmental difference at this age? But since some boys can do it, it does make me wonder if quite a lot is socialisation and peer group norms.

OP posts:
ShoesoftheWorld · 17/12/2023 09:20

My 16yo organised Christmas gifts for his brother and two best mates last year (at 15) and arranged a meet-up for present-swapping (the four of them are a bit of a group). Doing the same this year. He's also (in some things anyway) a better cook than me, though he would concede I'm the better baker. His older brother (now 18) is also very competent, and tbh that's also my experience of the majority of their friends, as far as I can see (not many of them cook, esp not to ds2's level, but they can certainly negotiate social arrangements and be thoughtful).

Daisies12 · 17/12/2023 09:21

I think this is from society, teen boys aren’t expecting to step up and get on with things as early, like organising but also doing their share round the house. My mum used to make me cook, clean etc but not my brothers. And we wonder why many men are useless partners

CrispsandCheeseSandwich · 17/12/2023 09:26

Don't we often, as society, just expect less from males in general?

I was at a toddler group once and the conversation was all "oh husbands are like having an extra child aren't they!" And they thought it was just funny that their husbands were barely functional adults. "Oh bless, that's men for you! He barely knows where the washing machine is let alone how to turn it on!"

picklepotage · 17/12/2023 09:26

I have ds15 and dd18.
Both independent at organising meeting friends and planning trips bus/train etc. dd from about 14 years old.

Difference between them is ds is lazy with house chores and has to be asked.

Beezknees · 17/12/2023 09:28

I have a 15 nearly 16 year old boy, he's my only child.

I have very high expectations of him, higher than most MNers seem to have of their teens, male or female. As a lone parent I've always been very conscious of not wanting him to grow up with "gender roles" when it comes to things like working, chores, cooking, etc.

I also expect a certain level of independence. I am not a taxi service. We live in an urban area and there's plenty of public transport so he's expected to use that or his legs if he wants to go somewhere.

To be honest, as a woman I hate things like secret Santa anyway so I wouldn't do anything like that. Also I haven't bought any Christmas food or sent any cards yet. As a lone working parent I've got enough to do! It'll be a last minute job for me. 😂

Andallthingsflourish678 · 17/12/2023 09:29

TinPanSally · 17/12/2023 09:04

I have several teenagers, including a 16 year old son. I pointed out a few months ago that the kind of weaponised incompetence displayed by some of his friends is an unattractive feature, and will be unlikely to make for happy relationships in the future.

Since then, he has chosen me a beautifully thoughtful present for my birthday, cleaned his room, and regularly cooks meals for the family, following recipes from the internet.

Bravo great parenting right there! 👍😀

VintageDiamonds · 17/12/2023 09:32

A meet up with secret Santa gifts doesn’t sound like the kind of thing my ds’s would be interested in organising or attending. So if the boys didn’t turn up, I’d suggest it was lack of interest rather than them not being able to find their way there!

My sons were taking themselves up to London by train from where we live (south coast) from age 15, navigating themselves around and finding their way home again. I don’t recognise this difference at all.

Original poster
3Tunes · 17/12/2023 09:32

I agree there are personality differences - two dds here and the younger one still needs much more reminding and watching over to make sure she does chores. But since she likes to see her friends it only took a couple of boring school holidays until she clocked that she needed to sort out her own social life if she didn’t like being alone while I’m at work.

I’m with @Beezknees in expecting quite a lot more than many other parents. But these boys that dd met seemed to her to be about where her female friends were three years ago, in terms of competence. So it isn’t just my parenting and expectations.

OP posts:
Original poster
3Tunes · 17/12/2023 09:34

VintageDiamonds · 17/12/2023 09:32

A meet up with secret Santa gifts doesn’t sound like the kind of thing my ds’s would be interested in organising or attending. So if the boys didn’t turn up, I’d suggest it was lack of interest rather than them not being able to find their way there!

My sons were taking themselves up to London by train from where we live (south coast) from age 15, navigating themselves around and finding their way home again. I don’t recognise this difference at all.

I asked. The boys opted in to both meet up and Secret Santa. Which I was surprised by…

OP posts:
Wildehorses · 17/12/2023 09:34

I have two teenage sons, yes absolutely useless at organising to meet up with friends, drives me to despair, useless around the house (totally my fault) … I have worked long hours, full time since they were tiny babies and spoiled them out of guilt I think ( I don’t have daughters but know I would have spoiled them too) … from what I can see, girls are a zillion miles ahead of most boys at this age!

sadbutdontknowwhy · 17/12/2023 09:35

My DS15 has a mixed friendship group, the girls are definitely in charge and the boys just do as they are told

Hereforthebunfights · 17/12/2023 09:38

Well society expects less of men than women.

Passthecake30 · 17/12/2023 09:39

Dd 14 is better at organising things, but that’s because she wants to have time with her mates, secret Santa etc whereas ds and his mates just wants to stare at a PC. If anything, Ds 15 is more competent at practical things than dd, he is able to cook himself a breakfast and clean up without a fuss and has much more common sense, out and about and at home. He’s much more helpful and accommodating than dd.

MyDogCafe · 17/12/2023 09:40

There was no chance our son was going to grow up to be incapable. We have plenty of men like that in our family and he thinks they should be embarrassed of themselves.

He’s always found getting himself organised harder than our daughter and he’s naturally more laid back, but he puts the effort in. He cooks, cleans, irons etc at uni, keeps in touch, organises stuff with friends and is as independent as he can be at his stage of life.

Freshair1 · 17/12/2023 09:41

I've seen how some parents literally do everything for their boys. It's utterly bizarre. Yet girls are encouraged to be independent. Which is great but when you have swathes of teenage boys who are next to useless you have to wonder how they've been patented.

Alargeoneplease89 · 17/12/2023 09:42

Boys and girls brains are different.

Ofcourse there is always exception to the rule especially on here were Jonny will be able to cook a roast and arrange a fundraising event to raise 5k for the homeless but I do feel girls are more organised and do things off their own backs, whereas boys need more prompting.

Dentistlakes · 17/12/2023 09:43

I have a 15yo DS. He’s perfectly capable of organising himself to do things he wants to do. He has friends through his hobbies, but doesn’t go out with friends outside of that. Not lack or organisation or maturity compared to girls, just not a desire to socialise in the same way. I don’t have a daughter to compare him to, but I don’t see the need to constantly compare girls and boys. They are just different in the way they operate socially.