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Original poster

15yo boys - do we expect less of them than girls?

162 replies

3Tunes · 17/12/2023 08:41

We were chatting about a meet up she’d just been to, and dd(15) said something like “I just expect basic competence, I mean, that’s not even the bar, it’s way below the bar, but most of them just don’t have it”.

So I asked her what she meant, and it was stuff like able to organise a meet up (the girls always do it), to turn up with a secret Santa gift that they opted in to doing four weeks ago, to navigate (with a phone) and actually find places rather than walk for ages and then stand around looking puzzled, to work out how to pay in a shop which didn’t take cards.

Which made me wonder, is it just this group, or is it something societal where we expect 15yo girls to generally organise themselves and work things out, but where boys are still more looked after and supported? I nearly posted on Feminism chat, but I figured I’d only get answers around socialisation of boys there, and wondered what other people thought.

OP posts:
VintageDiamonds · 17/12/2023 09:43

3Tunes · 17/12/2023 09:34

I asked. The boys opted in to both meet up and Secret Santa. Which I was surprised by…

Show quote history

But didn’t turn up. How do you know they didn’t show up because they couldn't find their way there? Or maybe that’s what they said but it was an excuse because it wasn’t something they wanted to attend. I wouldn’t want to attend something like that - especially if I thought people with views like ‘boys are incompetent’ were going to be present. It’s not nice.

Original poster
3Tunes · 17/12/2023 09:43

sadbutdontknowwhy · 17/12/2023 09:35

My DS15 has a mixed friendship group, the girls are definitely in charge and the boys just do as they are told

That was pretty much DD’s complaint. She didn’t want to have to do all the organising and planning and thinking. She’d rather meet up with other people where that’s all shared fairly.

Though this seems to have turned in to being about meet ups and secret Santa, which I agree is much more female coded. But she was also talking about being able to navigate independently, deal with paying in shops, deal with unexpected issues like the shop not taking cards etc.

OP posts:
Bobsyouraunty · 17/12/2023 09:44

Things like this really pee me off tbh.

Boys/men aren’t incompetent fools so why do we allow them to live like they are. It’s funny because historically men have been decision makers, higher paid, more likely to get promotions and make our laws etc. But on the other hand we accept this weird idea that men can’t do much????

we allow our daughters to do more of the housework
we allow women to do more of the domestic and child rearing because men can’t handle a crying baby or pick up a mop??

Men are more than capable and we’ve seen them be more than capable. We infantilise men and they turn around and give us weaponized incompetence for tasks they just simply don’t want to do.

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TheaBrandt · 17/12/2023 09:44

Exactly the same here. Girl parents getting fed up that it’s always us hosting. Lads never do but if there is trouble or damage it’s them 🙄. In the girls houses. I’ve said all girl birthday parties now girls don’t trash the house and they reciprocate.

Dd said every boy that has been dumped by one of her friends has turned abusively on the girl. Except one boy who is from another culture - he was decent about it. She explained they don’t have the emotional maturity to deal with rejection. If a girl is dumped she cries with her mates doesn’t call her ex sexually aggressive insults 🙄. Sorry mums of boys but I’m over it,

Phillipa12 · 17/12/2023 09:44

This reminded me of a chat I had with my ds14, last year. He came downstairs and said his room was dusty and he needed new bed linen. I got the duster and polish, went to the linen cupboard with ds, pointed out the double bed linen, pulled some out and handed it to him, along with the polish. I also pulled out the hoover and told him to use it, whilst telling him that I was not his maid and to stop being a lazy arse as it was deeply unattractive. He cleans his room and changes his bed every week now.

MyDogCafe · 17/12/2023 09:45

She should change who she’s mixing with. Why is she hanging out with dickheads? Some lads snd girls are shot, you can’t change them but you can choose better friends.

theduchessofspork · 17/12/2023 09:46

I think it’s a mix of things - later development and slightly (or more) different treatment being two. I think seeing this as women’s work is also a societal thing, and it’s possible that the skillset around nurturing relationships better is partly innate.

However @TinPanSally is right - non of this is an excuse for weaponised incompetence - you can and should learn these skills.

Original poster
3Tunes · 17/12/2023 09:46

VintageDiamonds · 17/12/2023 09:43

But didn’t turn up. How do you know they didn’t show up because they couldn't find their way there? Or maybe that’s what they said but it was an excuse because it wasn’t something they wanted to attend. I wouldn’t want to attend something like that - especially if I thought people with views like ‘boys are incompetent’ were going to be present. It’s not nice.

Show quote history

They did turn up. Some without secret Santa gifts, but they were there. Dd and one of her friends helped a boy who had forgotten a gift to buy a suitable one, and were (according to her) kind and patient with him.

OP posts:
MyDogCafe · 17/12/2023 09:47

shit not shot!

VintageDiamonds · 17/12/2023 09:47

’But she was also talking about being able to navigate independently, deal with paying in shops, deal with unexpected issues like the shop not taking cards etc.’ 😂It’s ridiculous to think that boys couldn’t deal with that kind of stuff. Laughably, utterly ridiculous.

Comedycook · 17/12/2023 09:47

I have a 13 year old DD and a 15 year old ds. My dd is naturally more diligent and has been since primary school. Even little things like pencil cases. She really cares about her...she spent ages choosing it and all her stationery. She puts stuff back, she looks after it. She organises it. Ds couldn't care less...there's broken pens in the bottom of his bag, he loses bits, he doesn't care what stuff he has in the first place. This attitude spreads out to other parts of his life.

coodawoodashooda · 17/12/2023 09:47

3Tunes · 17/12/2023 09:18

Loving your approach @TinPanSally !

I do wonder if there is some biological / developmental difference at this age? But since some boys can do it, it does make me wonder if quite a lot is socialisation and peer group norms.

Me too.

theduchessofspork · 17/12/2023 09:49

TheaBrandt · 17/12/2023 09:44

Exactly the same here. Girl parents getting fed up that it’s always us hosting. Lads never do but if there is trouble or damage it’s them 🙄. In the girls houses. I’ve said all girl birthday parties now girls don’t trash the house and they reciprocate.

Dd said every boy that has been dumped by one of her friends has turned abusively on the girl. Except one boy who is from another culture - he was decent about it. She explained they don’t have the emotional maturity to deal with rejection. If a girl is dumped she cries with her mates doesn’t call her ex sexually aggressive insults 🙄. Sorry mums of boys but I’m over it,

I think one thing you have to do with her is push back on the idea that this is all about low emotional maturity. This behaviour is totally unacceptable and their parents and the school need to get involved.

Original poster
3Tunes · 17/12/2023 09:50

VintageDiamonds · 17/12/2023 09:47

’But she was also talking about being able to navigate independently, deal with paying in shops, deal with unexpected issues like the shop not taking cards etc.’ 😂It’s ridiculous to think that boys couldn’t deal with that kind of stuff. Laughably, utterly ridiculous.

This is what dd observed. Unless you’re accusing me or her of lying, then either the boys she was with can’t do those things or they choose to pretend they can’t. Either way, it prompted a discussion with dd which made me think, and that’s why I posted on here.

OP posts:
Original poster
3Tunes · 17/12/2023 09:50

And yes, @MyDogCafe she’s not planning to go out with that group again.

OP posts:
Remmy123 · 17/12/2023 09:51

I just don't think boys that age are even at all bothered by secret Santa fir a start

but regardless my husband is absolutely shite at organising or forward planning

TheaBrandt · 17/12/2023 09:51

Dd was 🙄 as one lad asked on their group chat who was hosting this weekend ie which girl. No question that a boys parent would host it’s for the girls to organise and the boys rock up. If your 15 year old son is always “out” on these dark nights maybe think it might be good if he pulled his weight on hosting occasionally.

MyDogCafe · 17/12/2023 09:53

And yes, @MyDogCafe she’s not planning to go out with that group again.

Good. It’s not/wasn’t common behaviour in my kids friendship groups. My kids are 19 and 15. How the fuck did she end up with them? 😬

TheaBrandt · 17/12/2023 09:53

Dd was at an adults party and met a same age lads mum cooing at how marvellous he was and wanting confirmation from Dd that all the girls must love him. They don’t he’s a misogynistic bully. Dd nodded along - mother utterly clueless.

TinkerTiger · 17/12/2023 09:55

FrenchandSaunders · 17/12/2023 08:58

They tend to mature a bit later.

Yeah like 45

TheaBrandt · 17/12/2023 09:56

She socialises with the private school set (she’s at state) the private school girls are lovely - the boys are not.

Fivepigeons · 17/12/2023 09:56

I think this has more to do with birth order than gender. Just my personal experience but eldest children regardless of gender seem to have higher expectations regarding behaviour placed on them. I always think you can tell when a teen boy is the eldest child

Original poster
3Tunes · 17/12/2023 09:58

MyDogCafe · 17/12/2023 09:53

And yes, @MyDogCafe she’s not planning to go out with that group again.

Good. It’s not/wasn’t common behaviour in my kids friendship groups. My kids are 19 and 15. How the fuck did she end up with them? 😬

Friends of her school friends. I must ask her what her friends think of the boys, they keep meeting up (this was the first one dd went to), so they must get something from it.

OP posts:
Beezknees · 17/12/2023 09:59

I wonder if it's because these boys see it at home?

I'm a lone parent and I also have very high standards for a partner. At my last workplace I was the only single woman in my office, my 3 female work colleagues were married. Every single one of them talked about doing things for their husband or stories of things their husband did that I wouldn't even contemplate putting up with.

Woman 1 - asked her husband to put some clothes in the washing machine. He put the clothes in and just left them, didn't think to turn the machine on because she only asked him to put the clothes in and nothing else.

Woman 2 - makes lists for her husband of household jobs that need doing and does all the organising of Christmas shopping for his family, his mum, etc.

Woman 3 - her husband is a shift worker and if she's not at home to cook he will just order a takeaway, never does any cooking himself.

Maybe these teenage lads come from these sort of families with useless dads!

Spendonsend · 17/12/2023 09:59

I think i'm quite lucky with my son and his friends then. My eldest is particularly competent because he is a young carer. But for years he has cleaned his room, put his washing on, got himself places, cooked etc. I dont have a girl to compare to though. I know girls hit puberty and finish growing earlier on avergage. Perhaps they end up competent earlier on average too.