Has a man dressed as a woman ever come into a communal changing room with you or joined a specifically female group you belong to ?

[Rilkescat]

How common is it ? Not really referring to stories in the media but for everyday women on MN. FWIW I've never met a trans person that I know of, neither professionally or socially. I'm a HCP so meet alot of members of the public. None of my kids have friends that are trans nor do my friends have children that are either.
Loads of trans threads at the moment. No problem with that but just wondered if it really is that prevalent ?
Before I get flamed I'm not in favour of biological womens' safe spaces being open to biological men but equally I don't think that all trans people, especially trans women are necessarily sexually deviant or mentally ill.

Never happened to me that I know of. I have known two trans women through work.

Yes both

I play for a women's sports team that features a trans woman. She is open about having had surgery years ago. I've known her 5+ years and surgery was longer ago than that. I like her a lot. I don't mind changing in front of her.

She is a lot taller and stronger than a lot of the women at the club and a woman (maybe me!) is likely to lose a game day spot to her in the next season. I'm uncomfortable with this but if I said anything I'd be crucified and driven out of the team. I don't know who else feels like this and can't really find out.

I have encountered men dressed in "feminine attire" now and then in public loos/changing rooms and felt a bit uncomfortable but nothing bad has happened. I definitely prefer single sex spaces but saying anything to anyone I know in real life is out of the question sadly. I can't afford to lose my public sector job by getting cancelled for terfery and love my sport too much to lose that either.

A female friend once booked a hotel room for three of us, including a man who thought he was a woman. I didn't know this person very well, but was prepared to do it as I felt it was the right thing to do at the time, but felt very uncomfortable. The man dropped out so maybe he felt uncomfortable too.

With hindsight I would feel no less comfortable sharing with that person than I would with my good mates Eric and Steve who I often go away for a night with. Separate rooms always as I wouldn't dream of sharing in the way I wouldn't blink if it was a female friend.

Just read something on Twitter by a user on there who states that 60% of transgender (male to female) have suffered harassment and stalking and abuse from men whilst out and about in public.

Do they think this doesn't happen to (female born) WOMEN?

Yes those emotional hysterical women, some who've been sexually assaulted and raped. How utterly hysterical of them to be afraid of males in changing rooms! I mean everyone knows that ALL males (men and TW) NEVER commit rape and sexual assault do they?

Yes, about 5 years ago in the ladies toilets in Peterborough City Hospital. He was the only person in there as I walked in and we made eye contact in the mirror for a second. I walked straight back out without even thinking what my feet were doing - I completely acted on instinct.

The gym I use has a sign on the women's changing area/showers, a large sign on the door asking users to immediately inform reception if anyone 'of the male sex, who appears to be over the age of 8 years' is in there. A further two signs are in the changing room so I'm happy to give them my custom.

I'm a secondary school teacher and there are at least two girls identifying as boys in each year. I try to just accept it, but it worries me and I hope they don't go on to have surgery. I have teenage children and fortunately they think it's all a crock.

@HeavenIsAHalfpipe yes of course they do. That's the point, they're saying that they are so womanly they now get street harassment.

Tbh I think a lot of that violence is homophobic rather than VAWG but I accept totally that the person being attacked is not going to care.

This.

And yes I’ve been in women’s toilets where a man dressed as a woman was also present.

I don’t allow my dd’s to use public toilets or when we’re in restaurant etc alone any more.

It doesn’t matter whether you’ve experienced it personally or whether it is a commonplace thing.

Can you seriously not understand the need to protect single-sex spaces?

Where do you think it will lead to if men are simply allowed to waltz into women’s toilets/changing rooms/rape crisis centre/prisons/shelters etc unquestioned and unchallenged? We’ve seen already what happens.

Not to mention men taking positions meant for women, winning awards meant for women, taking sports/school places meant for women and girls.

I think your thread title and faux innocence is disingenuous.

Any woman, or man who doesn’t “get it” must be a bit thick IMO or are so far gone with the #be kind/woke/trans ideology narrative that they need to do some independent research and have a serious detox.

Yes, two, both work colleagues, using women's loos at work. The first would have been classed as a classic transsexual back in the day - very unobtrusive, had obviously worked really hard at "passing" and body language, and was helped in this by having an incredibly slight frame - to the extent that it took a couple of months for me to realise that she was male. Never ever said anything about being trans but once I'd seen it I couldn't unsee it.

Second - very vocally "out" at work, wrote lots of blogs about trans for the staff intranet, always one of the faces of Women's Day events etc. Obviously not female but lots of exaggerated femininity and off-kilter body language (think pigeon-toed walk and posture). Treated with great reverence.

But while one was pleasant to work with and one was to be given a wide berth, both of them just presumed women's consent to use our private spaces - or perhaps weren't that bothered about it in the first place? That made me uncomfortable.

None of my kids have friends that are trans nor do my friends have children that are either*

I have two close friends with trans offspring, while another has a niece who is trans and I don't even have a very wide social circle.

And yes, the rest I get from the Internet, like Heather Mason who was emprisoned with trans women and the sporting competitions that are being won be second class athletes who conveniently transition.

Frankly I don't care how transwomen feel, I care about women and their safety and dignity. Tw don't belong in our spaces, ever.

This.

Yes. One a neighbor another drank in our local. This was decades ago. Friend with a ladies dress shop said that they came in quite often. She drew the line about trying on lingerie.

Yes. A man in a women's group which changed the vibe and a middle aged man coming out of the ladies many years ago when I was about 22 wearing a dress and flashing his dick at me when we passed.

Yes.

Way back before I became aware of trans ideology (as opposed to individual trans people), I noticed a sign on an in-store loo. It was next to the 'WOMEN' sign on the outer door, & it read 'Only women & girls to use these toilets'. I mentioned it to DH when I re-joined him, laughing & saying, "Who else would be using it?" & I noticed a female staff member overhear me & how her expression changed. Ah, those innocent days...

The next time I was in there, the hand-written sign had changed to 'FEMALES' with no extra sign on the men's either time, & it was then obvious that a male had been trying to use the women's toilets claiming to be a woman, & the store management were trying to keep him out.

After that the women's toilets were repeatedly out of order while neither the men's nor the disabled ones were affected: someone taking revenge at being excluded, perhaps?

So it happened, even though I was never in the ladies' at the same time as this male.

And really, you have to take into account the 'chilling effect' on women of knowing that their single sex spaces may no longer be single sex. Knowing that you MIGHT encounter a male in, say, a toilet or a rape crisis centre is enough to put women off using them.

Yes. Lesbian groups are full of trans identified males.

Was at the hairdressers with my dd a while back. Not a salon we usually use. The hairdresser was tall with long hair and had a deep voice but I assumed them to be a woman until I'd been sitting waiting for a while. Then I realised the body shape was that of a man and the clothes were mostly unisex. S/he wore a long cardigan though which made them look more feminine. Probably make up, can't recal now, but I certainly assumed they were female initially. It seemed they were attempting to pass as a woman. More just androgynous maybe.

Yes, I’m a HCP and have met a few people who have transitioned.
The waitress in my local pub.
Also as a student I worked in a pharmacy and we had a lovely customer who came in to have her ears pierced and then became a regular at the make up counter.

No and no, that I am aware of.

Used to go to clubs with drag performers and so there were lots of men dressed as women in the ladies toilet, but that was par for the course in those clubs. And in gay clubs there were lots of men in the women's toilets, bit dressed as women.

But in mainstream places like changing rooms in a shop? Not that I've ever noticed.

The very fact that a lot of places are permitting men into women's spaces is limiting the freedom of women from very strict religious backgrounds as well as the freedom of traumatised women.

How common is it - not sure. More enlightened places design toilets, changing rooms in such a way as try to eliminate such problems. Cubicles, Floor to ceiling doors, basin in the cubicle, no invisible corners etc.

Not unrelated…..

I believe that some gay men use women’s toilets in clubs, pubs etc because they are, for them, a safer environment. Less chance of getting beaten up by a homophobic man who needs to prove himself.

If we are talking about intrusions into women only areas…. There is a forthcoming court case in America in which a man entered a changing room and raped a woman there. The person alleged to have done this Donald Trump.

Not exactly the same thing but a long time ago I worked for a charity which was open to the public. One evening a man came along asking for help and sat in one of the cubicles. My colleague went to get him a cup of tea and when she went back he was dressed as a woman, complete with stockings and high heels. She was very shocked as it was completely unexpected and she was only recently trained.

Not quite the same scenario, but a difficult experience.
I used to manage a charity shop, one of the regular customers was a trans woman who would spend time attempting to try on clothes in the small unisex changing cubicle (one person at a time). Not a problem at all. However it became obvious after a few visits that they were there for the thrill of trying on the clothes, choosing totally unsuitable sizes, asking our elderly volunteers to help button/zip them up whilst wearing skimpy revealing female underwear, coming out into the shop partially dressed asking other customers whether an item suited them and so on. They declined the offer of finding more suitable sizes, and never actually bought anything. I tried to politely mention they could buy and try on at home, they became more awkward and difficult after every visit - pushing everyone’s boundaries further and further each time. The turning point was when they left their own ‘stained’ underwear on the floor of the changing cubicle. We then had to close the changing room on the day they usually visited for ‘repairs’ for several weeks and they eventually stopped coming in.

This was my personal turning point away from ‘being kind’ and woke, my tipping point and awareness that not all trans people want to just get on with their lives presenting as a different gender, a small minority are motivated by a desire to push woman’s boundaries and ‘get-off’ on the sexual thrill which needs an audience of non-consenting woman. This type of predatory man is not always easily identified but we need to always be wary of - they are a menace to woman and the rights of trans people, we cannot pretend they don’t exist. I would have a lot more sympathy towards the trans community if they acknowledged this issue.