Ukraine invasion discussion thread - part 9

[cakeorwine]

Because MN only allows 1000 posts and this is fast moving

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4496974-The-Invasion-is-ongoing-Part-8

Mariupol evacuation halted for a second day - International Red Cross
The evacuation of civilians from the besieged south-eastern city of Mariupol has been halted, the International Committee of the Red Cross says.

Ukrainian and Russian forces blamed each other for failing to observe a ceasefire to allow local people to escape, after a similar agreement fell apart yesterday.

And I'll reiterate: this isn't about NATO, this is about Putin fearing Russia being infected with westernisation and democracy. Dictators come to power knowing they do not have true legitimacy and the support of the people, they commit humanitarian crimes to shore up their position and then they become entrenched in a spiral of crimes and aggressions because they know if they ever fall they will be imprisoned or killed. Putin doesn't want Ukraine to become an example to the Russians of a corrupt vassal country becoming successful and democratic, so he's turning it into an example of what happens if you stand up to him.

@Fiefofum

Exactly, thanks *@Gingerwarthog*

No problem

FFS , Reports of aid for Ukraine being blocked by UK customs.

Vans are now being turned away at dover docks carrying aid for minimal value on commercial invoices - by the BRITS - not the french . They are enforcing the law 101% on humanitarian aid . Miffed and dumbfounded is an understatement
twitter.com/vanmaneuro/status/1500459470702485512?s=21

[quote Fallsballs]@Fiefofum I think it was her hairdresser…[/quote]

@oakleaffy

Asking for Countries to give up nuclear ☢️ weapons ifs futile.

They'd all have to do it, at the same time.
Can’t see any agreement on that, lovely though it may be.

This is why the world should say, 'No disarmament, no lifting of sanctions.' I agree it won't happen though.

According to that supposedly leaked FSB document, Russia's nuclear weapons are not being well maintained and there are questions over its functionality. I wonder if Putin is currently redressing that.

For the benefit of those buying the crap.

its not about NATO

Erdoğan has just asked for peace. Putin completely stonewalled saying he wouldn't accept anything less than surrender of Ukraine's sovereignty.

Meanwhile there are more reports of unusual movements of military equipment in Kazakhstan. Both Kazakhstan and Belarus have had anti government protests and the suggestion is that if Putin goes they will also have revolutions.

Meanwhile
Illia Pomomarenko @IAPomomarenko
Ukrainian intel says Russians are deploying Tochka-U missile systems against Kyiv.
And it sounds bizarre. I was sure Russians deem Tochkas obsolete and they aimed at retiring them all long time ago.
Are they already running out of modern Kalibrs and Iskanders or what?

Americans say they have already fired 500 missiles. Ukrainian intel say Russians have spent most of its tactical missile stockpile against us — and correct me if I’m wrong, it was not that effective in terms of crippling our defense.

More (unverified) suggestions that Russia is running out of supplies...

@RobynMyEmployer not naive, very much care about civilians, including Afghan ones. You have no idea who I am, what I do for a living or what I care about. But if insulting me is taking time out from your ‘activities’, that’s all for the good

RobynMyEmployer that still doesn't justify Putin invading Ukraine.

Thanks RTB, I was looking for that post but MN's search function is rather useless.

[quote Fiefofum]@RobynMyEmployer not naive, very much care about civilians, including Afghan ones. You have no idea who I am, what I do for a living or what I care about. But if insulting me is taking time out from your ‘activities’, that’s all for the good [/quote]
Well, you kinda invited it with your snarky post effectively calling me a liar. 🤷‍♀️ Good to see it touched a nerve lol.

I suspect that Putin is aiming some of his many intimidating comments at the UK because he thinks that Bojo can indeed be easily intimidated.

Putin works by trying to instil fear and division and he's very, very good at it. Don't let him get to you.

Mind you he's much better at intimidation than he is at running an invasion. A military leader he is not. Let's face it, someone who was actor 4 years ago is making a laughing stock of the lifelong KGB man.

Yeah, try reporting her, him or it.

@DuncinToffee

RobynMyEmployer that still doesn't justify Putin invading Ukraine.

I agree. I'm 100% opposed to him. I guess I was just clumsily making the point that much of the world probably doesn't see us as the beacon of enlightenment that many seem to think we are. Ultimately, this is a game being played by world leaders in which we are very much passengers.

Kevin Rothrock @KevinRothrock

And now @mediazzzona is being blocked in Russia. That was the country’s last remaining independent news outlet still reporting on the war. The end.

@DesdamonasHandkerchief

Robyn has only commented on threads since the invasion of Ukraine, she commented on a zombie thread dating back to 2017, but only this week. I suggest we don't engage.

Yes, indeed.

According to that supposedly leaked FSB document, Russia's nuclear weapons are not being well maintained and there are questions over its functionality. I wonder if Putin is currently redressing that.

Well thats the question thats certainly been the one I've wondered about.

I do wonder just how much intelligence the west has on that stuff.

This might be a good idea.

BBC is reporting that Putin and Macron spoke by phone again on Sunday, in a call that lasted one hour and 45 minutes, the French presidency says.

No details have been released yet.

Some of the threads on Twitter about poor Russian logistics, trucks, supplies etc running low have been really interesting. And one of the relevant replies on those points said that if their trucks aren't well maintained and plentiful, how well looked after will their stocks of nuclear missiles be?

@peredito, @RobynMyEmployer and @EsmaCannonball -
Putin may be, at best, honestly paranoid about NATO. Or perhaps just using it as a smokescreen for the naive. NATO never told Russia it wouldn't expand eastwards. Russia explicitly agreed to that expansion in 1997, when it signed a treaty with NATO (the Founding Act. Russia agreed that more countries could join NATO and NATO said it wouldn't station nuclear missiles on them). You can read it online. NATO has kept its part of the bargain and has never placed nuclear missiles in the new member states, or any conventional forces that could possibly threaten Russia's huge army.
Since 2014 there have been two free elections in Ukraine. In both
of them the vast majority of voters backed western-facing candidates
supporting a closer relationship with the EU and NATO. Putin doesn't
accept that Ukraine has the right to make this decision for itself, or
indeed to be a sovereign nation at all.
Ukraine has not been perfect, but nothing they've done justifies the incredible violence and destruction that Putin has unleashed.