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Ukraine invasion discussion thread - part 9

999 replies

cakeorwine · 06/03/2022 10:45

Because MN only allows 1000 posts and this is fast moving

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4496974-The-Invasion-is-ongoing-Part-8

OP posts:
Thread gallery
19
AgnesWestern · 06/03/2022 11:33

@elephantmarchingin I felt/feel the same, we are a member of NATO so an attack on us would be an attack on all…

Satsumaeater · 06/03/2022 11:34

“We have good relations with (Patel). I am sure she is a decent person. I am sure she will solve this problem,” he added

Patel decent? Hmmm. I know that she is considered to be a good constituency MP but can't say that she comes over well as Home Secretary. Although - do we think that Theresa May would have been any better with regards to this specific scenario?

I can't se why Ukrainians should need visas if they have their passports with them. Give them a two year residence and work permit and then see what the world looks like then. Who knows we could even have a new government (here's hoping, as long as it's not Russian or Chinese-backed!).

I also think we could have done more for Afghans, although you don't know what continues to be done behind the scenes to get people out.

AlecTrevelyan006 · 06/03/2022 11:35

[url]chicagoboyz.net/archives/67331.html[/url]

interesting piece about the Russian convoy and why the Ukrainians don’t need to ‘take it out’ - snippet below

I have posted on twitter about the Russian Army columns North of Kyiv decaying into immobile blobs due to the Rasputitsa, poorly maintained Chinese truck tires and shear “follow the plan” Russian incompetence.

The head and first dozen or so kilometers of the southernmost column north of Kiev have been stuck there for EIGHT DAYS. The Russians have since rammed more and more vehicles into this monster traffic jam (idiotically “following the plan” Soviet-style) so the whole thing is now 65-70 kilometers long (almost 40 miles).

And, because the trucks can’t go off-road due to the Rasputitsa mud and tire problems, they’re stuck on the roads and the roads’ shoulders three vehicles wide for the whole @40 miles. That means fuel and resupply trucks can’t move on or off road to deliver anything to anybody.

So all the columns’ heads are now out of fuel and battery power. They can’t move north, south or sideways, and everything behind them is stuck because of the mud, and rapidly running out of fuel and vehicle battery charge too (assuming they haven’t already). Nor can any of those columns defend themselves because they’re too densely packed. They’re just targets waiting for the Ukrainians to destroy them.

Only the Ukrainians had something better to do. They opened the floodgates of reservoirs around those columns to flood them and turn the surrounding areas into impassable quagmires for months – probably until July or August. (See photo below) Probably several thousand Russian vehicles in those columns will be irrecoverable losses. Hundreds of Russian soldiers might have drowned.

This was not just a debacle, but an EPIC one. About 1/5th of the Russian force in Ukraine is now flooded or trapped, and are definitely out of the war for good.

HeadPain · 06/03/2022 11:37

Russia shooting people they say are Russian. People they said they are going to protect. mobile.twitter.com/anneapplebaum/status/1500152950102151169

MissConductUS · 06/03/2022 11:39

There may be a way forward to getting Ukraine additional combat aircraft:

US considers sending planes to Poland if Warsaw sends fighter jets to Ukraine: Blinken

This is the best source I've found for videos showing what's happening on the ground.

www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/

There are several posts about what's happening with the convoy north of Kyiv. A military analyst referred to it as "the world's longest POW camp".

Thanks for the new thread.

Catquestion · 06/03/2022 11:41

Thanks @cakeorwine - I’ll look into it.

@elephantmarchingin - maybe try to step away from the news for a while, or be selective about where you’re getting your news from. As has been shown on the last thread, some sources are more irresponsibly alarmist (when it comes to threats to the rest of the world) than others. Unless you’re in Ukraine, I don’t think you need to panic....from someone who spent the early part of last week in a state of major panic. Carrying on with life as normal definitely helps. This link was posted on an earlier iteration of the thread and is still useful: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60557186

jgw1 · 06/03/2022 11:44

@DuncinToffee

I would rather our resources went to help those in truly dire need i.e. actual Ukrainians fleeing their poor, destroyed country, not a load of Putin sympathising people from Russia and Belarus!

Don't worry, the Putin sympathisers already got in via their golden visa.

As for 'genuine' refugees......

Well if these people can't afford one of the golden visas it just goes to show that they are feckless lazy wasters coming here to live on benefits and take our jobs.
Garfieldismyspiritanimal · 06/03/2022 11:44

.

Andouillette · 06/03/2022 11:46

@DuncinToffee

I would rather our resources went to help those in truly dire need i.e. actual Ukrainians fleeing their poor, destroyed country, not a load of Putin sympathising people from Russia and Belarus!

Don't worry, the Putin sympathisers already got in via their golden visa.

As for 'genuine' refugees......

QED.
vera99 · 06/03/2022 11:47

An amazing thread with a reputed translation from an FSB insider My translation of the analysis of the current situation in Russia by an active FSB analyst. Buckle up for a long thread and definitely please share far & wide. The full text is over 2000 words. This is a highly insightful look behind the curtain - covers many subjects.

It's a shame that James's Bond isn't real and anyway he's dead.

twitter.com/igorsushko/status/1500301348780199937

TheSillyMastiff · 06/03/2022 11:48

Morning all (just)

Hoping the evacuation of Mariupol goes well today and the ceasefire is long enough.

Catquestion · 06/03/2022 11:51

I hope today’s ceasefire is actually a ceasefire and allows for safe evacuation

elephantmarchingin · 06/03/2022 11:53

@Catquestion I have 45 mins planned in today to take the dog to the field which has no mobile signal at all so am looking forward to that.

I know on the surface it sounds silly but my god I'm scared.

Gingerwarthog · 06/03/2022 11:55

@Catquestion

Thank you for the new thread.

I will email my MP and do some research to see if any local groups are co-ordinating group sponsorship as I’m pretty certain I won’t have sufficient money to do it solo.

Could you please post what you find out Cat?
Tigersonvaseline · 06/03/2022 11:57

Elephant.. we've for one of the best if not the best army in Europe.

We are part of NATO.

We excel in intelligence and Comms And one reason why the Ukraine army is able to repel Putin, for now, is because apparently we helped to Train them.

We are a part of NATO And yes an attack would trigger a united response.

However... would it trigger a response if it was a soft target. What would happen if another person is poisoned on our soil.
What if they cut that cable in the sea?

What then?

What if he gets poison into our systems somehow?

Would that trigger a NATO response??

PestorPeston · 06/03/2022 11:58

I suppose it would be possible to get a Ukrainian au pair. One way to get young women out.

AuldAlliance · 06/03/2022 11:59

"I am sure she is a decent person" doesn't mean Darmanin thinks Patel is decent.

It's a 3hr train ride from Calais to Paris.

I've just compared the websites of the British Embassy (Paris), the British Embassy (Warsaw) and the French Embassy (Warsaw). The contexts are different, obviously, but the British Embassy sites do not mention Ukraine at all, let alone how Ukrainian refugees might apply for a visa.
The French one has a section for Ukrainians currently in Poland wishing to travel to France, with a brochure in French, English and Ukrainian.

There is information online elsewhere (in English) about visa applications for Ukrainians under the new 'extended' family rules. It states that appplications need to be made in person in Poland at a VAC (Visa Application Centre). There are 2 of these in Poland.

The UK's VAC in Paris makes no mention of Ukraine/Ukrainians on its website. Its opening hours are arcane and do not extend beyond 3pm:
pos.tlscontact.com/par_en/address

ChardonnaysPetDragon · 06/03/2022 12:01

Would that trigger a NATO response??

Only an attack on a member state.

Tigersonvaseline · 06/03/2022 12:03

Thanks Vera that's an interesting thread.
Not sure what's real or not there but it's an interesting take.

Freedombpass · 06/03/2022 12:03

Hadn't realised there was a new thread.

Tigersonvaseline · 06/03/2022 12:04

Yes but what's the definition of attack.

More poisoning here? Cutting that cable?

DuncinToffee · 06/03/2022 12:07

BBC recap

If you're just joining us, here's a quick recap of what's been happening on day 11 of Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

For a second day, there are attempts to evacuate trapped civilians from the besieged southern city of Mariupol. Ukrainian officials said a new route had been agreed with Russian forces that was meant to open at 12:00 local time (10:00 GMT). It's not clear yet how this is unfolding on the ground
Yesterday a planned evacuation corridor was aborted due to Russian attacks
Ukraine's president warns that Russian forces are preparing to shell the port city of Odesa, predicting a "historic crime"
There are signs Russia's war command is focusing on the southern front, aiming to cut Ukraine off from the Black Sea, Ukraine's top security official says
But there has also been intense fighting to the north-west of Kyiv. The small town of Irpin - which lies at the head of the huge Russian convoy near the capital - has come under artillery fire and air strikes
In the east, Kharkiv and Sumy have also suffered renewed bombardment
More than 1.5m people fleeing Ukraine have crossed into neighbouring countries in the last 10 days, according to the UN
UK Deputy Prime Minister Dominic Raab says the conflict could last for months, if not years
The UK's chief of defence staff says the government has a direct line to Moscow's operational HQ, and he has asked to meet his Russian counterpart

Gingerwarthog · 06/03/2022 12:11

If you Google Amnesty 'Welcoming refugees through community sponsorship' it gives you more details (about sponsorship in general not specifically Ukraine). Plus case studies.

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 06/03/2022 12:12

It seems councils will be encouraged to sponsor Ukrainians so it's worth contacting local councillors as well as MPs.

Local authorities will be able to become a sponsor to help displaced Ukrainians come over to the UK.

The Prime Minister has announced plans for an uncapped sponsored humanitarian visa route to help Ukrainians with no ties to the UK. This will allow sponsors such as local authorities and communities to help Ukrainians who have been forced to flee their homes.

Under the scheme, people will be able to work and will be given housing and integration support.

www.localgov.co.uk/Councils-to-be-given-chance-to-sponsor-displaced-Ukrainians/53777

RagzRebooted · 06/03/2022 12:13

[quote vera99]An amazing thread with a reputed translation from an FSB insider My translation of the analysis of the current situation in Russia by an active FSB analyst. Buckle up for a long thread and definitely please share far & wide. The full text is over 2000 words. This is a highly insightful look behind the curtain - covers many subjects.

It's a shame that James's Bond isn't real and anyway he's dead.

twitter.com/igorsushko/status/1500301348780199937[/quote]
Interesting and encouraging, if true. Seems likely that it is legitimate, even if not all of it is accurate (poor FSB guy sounds rather stressed!).