Ukraine invasion discussion thread - part 9

[cakeorwine]

Because MN only allows 1000 posts and this is fast moving

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4496974-The-Invasion-is-ongoing-Part-8

twitter.com/fbkinfo/status/1500454684217298945?s=21
Russians are demonstrating across the country

@RobynMyEmployer
Thanks. Interesting to get that perspective.

I think a huge amount of people on twitter are idiots and another huge amount are trolls.

Agreed. It's amazing how many have completely forgotten Afghanistan now but are happy to accept nuclear fallout as a necessary risk in helping Ukraine.

@HeadPain that video is heartbreaking, a whole family dead apparently, two children and a mother and the father seriously injured. The screaming of that poor dog will haunt me for days.

How can we sit in our warm homes and decry a no fly zone when this is happening? I know why but it breaks my heart that we cannot help them. Putin is a monster.

@RobynMyEmployer

Whilst invading Ukraine was inexcusable, I do believe that the NATO element has aggravated things. Of course, the Ukraine can do what it wants but my stylist (Russian) was saying to me yesterday that Boris would probably be less than happy if Scotland had allied with Russia and brought Russian military influence to our doorstep. Also that we too aren't hesitant to invade countries we perceive as a military threat.

I don't fully agree with her but she's right about the latter point.

FFS

@peridito
There should be no question of giving in to any such suggestions or demands.
Putin has zero right to influence what should happen in another independent democratic country. If such country wishes to be part if NATO and becomes a member , Putin has no say in it.
That's why they want to be members in the first place.

@natpaw

twitter.com/fbkinfo/status/1500454684217298945?s=21 Russians are demonstrating across the country

That is encouraging. Is this happening across Russia?

Thanks for the new thread and major eye roll at the Russian stylist - that's hardly a comparison. A more accurate comparison would be if Ukraine had decided to go the opposite way, and align itself more with Russia, would it be justified for NATO to view this as a threat and invade? No, it would not.

If Russia overcomes Ukraine then Poland and therefore NATO will be on their border - so it doesn't make a great deal of sense to say Russia invaded to ensure NATO wasn't on their border.

Besides which Ukraine isn't in NATO and can't qualify for membership whilst there are questions of the stability of Donbas.

Appears they are shouting “Ukraine is not the enemy”
Very brave people

I don't think anyone on these threads have pretended that the UK are angels. It doesn't mean we should look away from current events.

Apparently Bellingcat and others believe that leaked FSB document is authentic. Even if it is the product of Ukrainian or Western counter-intelligence, it's a fascinating read. Putin is obviously at the bunker stage of 'deranged despot who only wants to hear from yes-men.' The point about Assad falling if Putin goes also makes me worry about ISIS making a resurgence (not that I'm a fan of Assad). I guess a lot of dictators and tyrants have really got eyes on this conflict.

We're told that nuclear weapons prevent war but here we're seeing a situation where a country with a dilapidated army is leveraging its nuclear threat to wage war and bully the rest of the world into inaction. If the sanctions cut as deep as that document suggests I really believe we should use our leverage to demand Russia gives up its nuclear weapons. They must never be in a position to dominate like this again. I suppose China won't support that idea though.

[quote Fiefofum]@HeadPain that video is heartbreaking, a whole family dead apparently, two children and a mother and the father seriously injured. The screaming of that poor dog will haunt me for days.

How can we sit in our warm homes and decry a no fly zone when this is happening? I know why but it breaks my heart that we cannot help them. Putin is a monster.[/quote]
A no fly zone will be WW3
There will be millions dead and millions of screaming dogs.

Why are people so keen to start WW3?

A no fly Zone will unleash hell.

Can someone help me understand what Russia meant when they yet again pointed at the UK and said they will now be taking "proportionally tough retaliatory measures" in response to the sanctions?

I was doing ok mentally and now I'm terrified again!

Why is it always us he points the finger at?

Asking for Countries to give up nuclear ☢️ weapons ifs futile.

They'd all have to do it, at the same time.
Can’t see any agreement on that, lovely though it may be.

BBC live

Fastest growing refugee crisis in Europe since WW2, UN says

UN officials say they expect the wave of refugees to intensify further

The number of Ukrainian refugees continues to rise sharply, and more than 1.5 million people have fled the country in just 10 days, according to the UN refugee agency (UNHCR).

Filippo Grandi, the agency's high commissioner, has called it the fastest growing refugee crisis in Europe since World War Two.

But where exactly are these refugees going and which countries have opened their borders to Ukrainians?

Here is what we know so far:

A total of 922,400 people have fled Ukraine to Poland since 24 February, according to Polish border guards
The number of Ukrainians who have entered Moldova has reached 201,133. The country has by far the largest concentration of refugees per capita in the region
Romania has welcomed 227,446 Ukrainians so far. Of those, 155,680 have already driven or flown out of the country
About 50,000 Ukrainians have reached the Czech Republic
Hungary and Slovakia have also seen Ukrainian refugees arrive
The World Health Organization (WHO) has deployed staff to Moldova, Poland and Romania "to scale up [the] response capacities of its country offices, including operations, engagement with partners and support to the [Ukrainian] government for the health response".

Use your comprehension skills @oakleaffy! What did I actually say?

I know why we can’t…. Doesn’t make it any less heartrending!

@oakleaffy
I don't think Fie was saying that. She said in her post that she knows why we can't have a no fly zone but it breaks her heart to feel so powerless.
Which is how most of us feel.

I know what you’re saying about Twitter being full of crazies, but I do worry that the public opinion is swaying that way now…as in towards implementing a no fly zone and we know how easily swayed the government are when it comes to public opinion.

Exactly, thanks @Gingerwarthog

@Fiefofum I think it was her hairdresser…

[quote Gingerwarthog]@oakleaffy
I don't think Fie was saying that. She said in her post that she knows why we can't have a no fly zone but it breaks her heart to feel so powerless.
Which is how most of us feel.[/quote]
Of course we all feel the same bloody way, no medals for saying how upset we are.

The Belarusian Deputy Defence Minister has resigned.