Ukraine invasion discussion thread - part 9

[cakeorwine]

Because MN only allows 1000 posts and this is fast moving

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4496974-The-Invasion-is-ongoing-Part-8

I assume US did too, if asked

The no fly zone is a definite no here. I don't think most people understand that before you implement a no fly zone you have to identify and destroy anti-air defenses on the ground. So that means attacking Russian ground forces. You also have to have SAR (search and rescue) forces in place to recover pilots that have ejected from damaged aircraft. So that means American troops and helicopters on the ground as well, where they have to be protected from attack by Russian forces.

It's not as simple as it sounds.

[quote AgnesWestern]@MarshaBradyo I’m pretty sure the USx said no to that but said about providing planes instead.[/quote]
I see. The thought of what will be a very emotional and tense address is making me nervy but I guess we’ll just have to wait and see. Hope they stay level headed.

Emerson T. Brooking @etbrooking
This statement from Telegram CEO Pavel Durov does not mince words. Although it is not technically a policy announcement, it is much more provocative and personal than the tone set by Meta, Twitter, et al.

Don't think Russia will take well.

Notably, this is an English-language statement that has clearly been edited and written with some care.

This is very different from Durov's slapdash Russian-language announcement on Feb 27 that he was considering cutting off Telegram entirely.

Is he specifically addressing our parliament? Who is he addressing? I thought they meant his nation m

@AgnesWestern

I’m worried about this new conservative/Ukraine coalition poster.

How much more fuel does Putin need to aim directly at us?!

Exactly

@AgnesWestern

I’m worried about this new conservative/Ukraine coalition poster.

How much more fuel does Putin need to aim directly at us?!

I would suggest that if Putin is scared of posters and meme he should be shaking in his boots.

Otherwise he'll be fine.

@RedToothBrush Guto has been very quiet , maybe there is a vacancy coming up ?

He won’t say anything he hasn’t already said to the PM and others in Private. It’s simply historic due to the nature of the address to the Commons, not because they’re expecting some big announcement.

@Tigersonvaseline

Is he specifically addressing our parliament? Who is he addressing? I thought they meant his nation m

Parliament. Addressing MPs. Not the nation.

[quote dogfishman]@peridito, for both NATO and Russia, trying to reduce their conventional forces was one aim of the Founding Act. It wasn't a binding commitment to achieving a certain level, but for many years that's what NATO (and Russia) did. But in 2014 Russia annexed Crimea. The deployment of more forces in the Eastern European countries was in response to that. It's still very small numbers (c.4500 soldiers). That's no threat at all to Russia's million-plus army. A lot of Russians seem to think it is but I think Putin thrives on and needs that paranoia.[/quote]
I've never imagined it was a binding act ,I 'm aware of what words like "should" and "consider" mean .I'm able to read the definition
this Act defines the goals and mechanism of consultation, cooperation, joint decision-making and joint action that will constitute the core of the mutual relations between NATO and Russia.

My impression was that you felt it had some binding qualities - your repetition of Russia explicitly agreeing to an expansion as if "they've agreed and therefore they need to abide by that agreement " .And I still haven't found where they agreed to this ,other than in the general sense that the FA assumed there would be a greater number of countries joining NATO and Russia signed the FA .

But yes ,we both agree that Nato increased their military presence in response to the annexation of Crimea.

The Telegraph@Telegraph
France has suggested that Ukraine could be granted a bespoke form of EU membership after Volodymyr Zelensky applied to join the bloc

Bahhahahahahahahahah!

@Tigersonvaseline

Is he specifically addressing our parliament? Who is he addressing? I thought they meant his nation m

I have the same Q- Is it an address to just our parliament, or similar across Europe, worldwide? If so, I don’t think I understand why at this point?

PARLY @PARLYapp
Tomorrow’s address to the Commons by President Zelenskyy is a historic moment in the history and practice of the House. The Queen has never addressed the Commons, no-one who isn’t an MP has even spoken in the chamber except those compelled to the bar of the House to apologise.

[quote ThirtyAndfeelingFifty]@GallopingHighRoad

Yes it is because unless they give in we are on our way to ww3. It’s better to give in now and although that is devastating for the Ukraine it’s sadly preferable than the whole world being destroyed in a nuclear war.

Putin is clearly unwell/unstable and he needs to not be backed into a corner . If he wins this he may very well be satisfied with that and stop his campaign. It’s not a given he will go for other countries like some believe[/quote]
Nope. Not with you at all.

We are already in WW3. It is a cyber-based information and disinformation war to win hearts and minds whatever their shape. God help another Western leader that tries on another Iraq 2003 Version 2. I doubt we will see that again.

FYI when I was in the military 1% of our training was nuclear, 9% biological and 90% chemical. Why? Because chemical can avoid destroying lands the conqueror wishes to take. Note that chemical weapons have already been deployed by Russia twice on UK soil.

Hitler was clearly unwell/unstable and where do you think he was going to stop?

Surely it’s the same idea as when he addressed the European Parliament? It’s all about presence.

@Tigersonvaseline

I've mentioned before I'm impressed by blinken. He is the only statesman I'm seeing with actual experience and depth of knowledge on his subject i'e he hasn't spent the last four years in education.

Does anyone else compare? Perhaps in the EU?
Canada??

Next US President?

Thanks.

But...why? Has he addressed any other parliament's!

I'm a little concerned that something was agreed by the new coalition today and he will be thanking us for it tomorrow??

@Tigersonvaseline

Thanks.

But...why? Has he addressed any other parliament's!

I'm a little concerned that something was agreed by the new coalition today and he will be thanking us for it tomorrow??

Yes he addressed the European Parliament

@RedToothBrush

The Telegraph@Telegraph France has suggested that Ukraine could be granted a bespoke form of EU membership after Volodymyr Zelensky applied to join the bloc

Bahhahahahahahahahah!

Do they get a rebate?

Sorry I’ve not kept up, what’s going on with Putin demands? So he wants to keep Crimea then two parts of Ukraine to be recognised as independent so does that mean they are their son country or a part of Ukraine or Russia still?

Hate to be the one to drag his name into the midst, but does anyone know or care what the Dark Lord that is Dominic Cummings has to say about the crisis ? He spent quite a bit of time in Russia ?

Also is anyone else getting Reservoir Dogs vibes from that Conservative poster/meme/flyer ?

In theory independent.

In practice, Russian puppets. Like Belarus is. Like Ukraine would be.

Are they predominantly Russian people in those areas? Are they seeking to be independent or is this just Putin wanting what he wants for who knows what reason

The fact that the Kremlin is offering terms at all is huge. A few days ago Putin was saying that he wasn't stopping until he had all of Ukraine under his thumb. I think the costs have finally become clear to him.