Drag queen at wedding

[wedding2021]

I'm considering having a drag queen sing at my wedding. What would you think if you were at a wedding and a drag queen had been booked to perform? Obviously they'd tone it down a bit with swearing etc.

Trying to make up backstories about drag to try and make it woke is utterly ludicrous.

No, it really isn't.

I don't like drag that is about men parodying women at all. I find it very misogynistic.

However, drag has roots in music hall and other kinds of entertainment that were also places for gay men and lesbians to find a bit of freedom, at a time when it was illegal or very dangerous to be gay in mainstream culture.

If you look at the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, you find dozens of examples of women who dressed up as men onstage and used that ambiguity to pursue lesbian personal lives; you find dozens of men who were drag performers who were also gay in their private lives. Not because dressing as a woman makes a man effeminate, or because dressing as a man makes a woman butch, but because those were spaces where there was a tiny bit of tolerance for the idea of a person bending what were then very strict social rules.

Some drag today acknowledges that history, and it is important.

It's very easy to climb on the shoulders of the past and sneer, and say we'd have done it better. But we weren't there. We don't know how we'd have done it.

I work in special needs. Ocassionally, usually during PE the kids will try and climb on you, and on the male staff. These are trusted adults that the children are already very familiar with and the adults know well.

Still, none of us would ever lie like this. There is always a constant gentle encouragement for the kids to get off and back onto the floor. What you don't do is lie back and just let them do it.

It never happened in mainstream as far as I can remember.

I have never seen a children's entertainer lie like this whilst kids crawl all over him and if I did I would be like Maybe in the 80s but not now!

There are other pictures from this story time with similar images so it's not a 1 second snapshot either. I'm not saying that this particular drag queen was getting anything sinister out of this by the way. I'm using it as an example of how basic safeguarding seems to go out the window when you slap a rainbow on something. And that I am concerned that some people will cotton on to this and take advantage of it.

No one is saying anything different, though? People are pointing out that there's a huge, homophobic leap of logic between 'drag queen: good wedding entertainment?' and 'OMG PRIDE IS FOR PAEDOS!'

I was just explaining why I don't like drag, and part of that is that is currently being fairly aggressively marketed to kids 🤷‍♀️

And I never said that 'pride is for paedos'.

I'm using it as an example of how basic safeguarding seems to go out the window when you slap a rainbow on something.

I know, right? Have you heard how these days they let lesbians and gays adopt and everything? It'd disgusting.

Much better when we relied on the Catholic Church, who never set a foot wrong with the little 'uns.

Wasn't the no-touch/no cuddle confusion around when there was a slight change in policies about 5 or so years ago?

Basically it empowered children to be more vocal about their choice. The comforting hug was one of those because obviously not everyone likes this, and it's almost an auto-response. And the full-on hug became the side by side hug.

Really wish I could remember the same of it. I remember doing some training about it, meanwhile, some were outraged about nothing basically.

SarahAndQuack you are wilfully misunderstanding what posters are saying, particularly about safeguarding, can you not understand how dangerous it is to encourage a culture where people dismiss basic safeguarding concerns because they are afraid of being called a bigot ?

And during the 70s and 80s all of the gay and lesbian people i knew wanted to distance themselves from the fetish/kink scene precisely because it was being infiltrated with perverts. This is PIE all over again.

I admit now religion and religious building confuses me, I can never remember who wears what and the names. I forget a lot of things.

What are the dresses called they all wear?

I know, right? Have you heard how these days they let lesbians and gays adopt and everything? It'd disgusting

This, I just don't get the argument.
What has the fact that they're drag, or gay, or lesbian got to do with anything?
People can read to kids at libraries, always have been able to.
What has what they're wearing or their sexuality got to do with anything?
Same as when they're just singing at a wedding like the OP said they'd be going to be doing a few cheesy songs, that's it, no act as well.
They're not doing anything wrong.
That picture upthread, yeah not the wisest of moves as no doubt from attitudes on this thread people automatically doubt your intentions.

Much better when we relied on the Catholic Church, who never set a foot wrong with the little 'uns.

How ironic to bring in the Catholic Church - an organisation famously infiltrated by predators precisely because they know that any sort of questioning of anything to do with the church was seen as abhorrent and it was a great cover.

Don't know what gays and lesbians adopting has got to do with anything?

People can read to kids at libraries, always have been able to.
What has what they're wearing or their sexuality got to do with anything?

So how come 'drag queen story time' is such a huge thing then? If the fact that they are drag queens is so irrelevant?

I think it's telling that Mhairi Black, a lesbian who became the youngest ever British MP, apparently wasn't exciting enough for a school visit on her own. She had to bring a male drag queen with a sexually explicit name and NSFW social media account along for it to be worth it.

So how come 'drag queen story time' is such a huge thing then? If the fact that they are drag queens is so irrelevant?

I'd have thought because it's now more acceptable to "be who you want to be" whether that be drag, gay, lesbian?
(NOT paedos before anyone starts on that again, disclaimer that's never ever OK)
Shows kids that it's OK just being you.

That picture upthread, yeah not the wisest of moves as no doubt from attitudes on this thread people automatically doubt your intentions.

What, so you are saying that safeguarding is only necessary because otherwise people will 'automatically doubt your intentions'?

SarahAndQuack you are wilfully misunderstanding what posters are saying, particularly about safeguarding, can you not understand how dangerous it is to encourage a culture where people dismiss basic safeguarding concerns because they are afraid of being called a bigot?

No, I'm not wilfully misunderstanding.

I have said - and I'll say it again, since you obviously struggled to read it the first time - that no one is saying you shouldn't be able to question things without being called a bigot.

Literally no one.

Again: no one.

Do you want me to keep repeating it, or do you want to admit you didn't bother to read me saying it the first time, and decided to keep bleating on with the same old message?

I'd have thought because it's now more acceptable to "be who you want to be" whether that be drag, gay, lesbian?

So where are all the gay and lesbian story times then? Where are those role models? How come it's only drag queens in libraries and schools?

Isn't it a bit offensive to gay people that drag queens appear to be the only representation of LGBT that kids are getting? Most gay blokes are nothing like drag queens. I find that a bit homophobic it itself, this stereotype, as most gay and lesbian people are just normal people getting on with their lives.

As I said, it does appear that Mhairi Black was not good enough to go into a school visit on her own as an example of a positive gay role model? She had to bring a drag queen with her 🙄

@JoeExoticsEyebrowRing, that was sort of my point about the Catholic Church.

We all know that perverts infiltrate all sorts of venerable structures of society. I've cited the RCC and heterosexual marriages/families.

The thing is, I've not seen anyone on this thread saying that, because perverts exploit the RCC/heterosexual marriage in order to get close to small children and groom them, we therefore should abolish both of these things.

If child abuse is actually what concerns you - and it should be - then let me hear your plans for dismantling hetero family structures. That is where the majority of abuse actually happens.

Of course, you won't advocate for that, because it would be ridiculous. It should seem equally ridiculous to take Pride as a target, just because there are (and there are!) a minority of people who exploit it for abusive ends.

Unless you think Pride is somehow qualitatively different from a thing like the RCC or a heterosexual marriage, and somehow innately structured in such a way as to suit perverts, because it caters to LGBT people?

Isn't it a bit offensive to gay people that drag queens appear to be the only representation of LGBT that kids are getting?

But ... it's not?

Like I said earlier in this thread, my DD's nursery did 'Pride'. To the best of my knowledge, in our rural part of North Yorkshire and in a nursery with maybe 40 children, the drag queens are not well represented. Sadly, they had to put up with boring old 'Heather Has Two Mummies' and 'Tango Makes Two'.

I could petition to get the drag queens included, I'm sure, but on the whole, LGBT events for children do tend, unsurprisingly, to reflect the LGBT parents and carers who have to do with them.

I mean, you do know these days it is legit to be an out lesbian/gay man and a teacher, for example? There are shitloads of us. That's pretty direct 'representation'. I know gay vicars, gay doctors, gay librarians, gay dinner ladies. If you think children only meet LGBT people are specially designed events, you are deluded.

Pretty misogynistic thing to have at your wedding. Nice bit of womanface

I would think a drag queen at a wedding would be brilliant!

But I'm a massive fan of rupauls drag race.

Don't get why people are so serious

I've not said anything about 'dismantling' Pride? At all?

I am saying that I think it's possible that in a culture of 'acceptance without exception' people could take advantage. I gave several examples upthread of concerning events and how people who voiced concerns about these things were called 'bigots'.

As you say, there are gay people being great models in lots of places in kids lives anyway. So why are libraries and schools rolling out adult entertainers who are cartoon versions of 'female' for pre-schoolers up and down the country in the name of inclusivity?

So where are all the gay and lesbian story times then? Where are those role models? How come it's only drag queens in libraries and schools?

Apologies in advance if I word this badly, but how would you even know who was gay, or who was lesbian?
Your sexuality isn't something you can "see", it would just be another person reading a story?
As our sexuality doesn't define us as a person.
So why would it with somebody doing drag?
If they started smutty innuendo and sex jokes in front of the kids, then of course I'd have a problem with that like most people would (I hope!)
Just reading stories though?
Anyways, the OP just wanted to know if it would be a good idea to have her next door neighbour sing a few cheesy songs, no act involved.
OP think it's a bit of a marmite subject lol, maybe post it on your FB and see what people think

Anyway, I don't think we will agree on this.

I don't like drag. I think it's an offensive caricature of womanhood, right down to the horrible stage names, and it's definitely not for children. My personal opinion is that I wouldn't like it at a wedding, but that is obviously just my opinion.

Over and out

I am saying that I think it's possible that in a culture of 'acceptance without exception' people could take advantage. I gave several examples upthread of concerning events and how people who voiced concerns about these things were called 'bigots'.

Amazingly, when I disagree with you, I actually ... disagree. I'm not trying to paraphrase you. So less of the fake-confused 'I never said anything about dismantling Pride!" line.

I pointed out that, if you were serious about objecting to child abuse, your targets would include the structures that facilitate child abuse the most. These do not include Pride; they do - surprisingly to some - include heterosexual families.

It's a sad fact that most children who are abused, are not abused by drag queen story time (however dodgy we might think that concept is). Most abused children are abused by members of their families and family friends - often perfectly heterosexual, seemingly 'nice' men.

I understand concerns about perverts infiltrating Pride, really I do. I am familiar with PIE and its history, which proves that people do, and have, done this. However, it is absolutely ridiculous to make Pride/LGBT culture your target unless you are willing to tackle the more egregious problem, which is the sanctioning of child abuse within mainstream society.

"I understand concerns about perverts infiltrating Pride, really I do"

That's not what you said earlier though is it? I was a bigot and an unwanted "spokesperson".

"unless you are willing to tackle the more egregious problem, which is the sanctioning of child abuse within mainstream society."

Yes, I tackle that too on a daily basis. It's exactly what I do. This thread wasn't about that though was it? If it had been I'd have been discussing exactly that.

The fact is you called me a bigot and accused me of this...

"so many women (the majority of them straight) on MN set themselves up as saviours of the poor little lesbians who are so horribly endangered by things like ... Pride."

You really have no idea. "Saviours of the poor little lesbians"? WTF did you just write?

Seem to think you're a bit of a "spokesperson" yourself