Can’t afford to keep my children

[Tobl20]

Just wondering if anyone else who shares custody of their children with an ex partner has found a solution to this dilemma of only one parent being able to claim benefits for the kids. I share custody of my children and my ex partner claims child benefit and tax credit for both kids. This has been the case for the last 2 years since we split and he is still living in our house and refuses to sell. When the kids are with me we all live in my parents spare bedroom and share a double bed. It’s very cramped and there is no room for all their clothes and toys etc and my parents are selling the house so I need to find somewhere for me and the kids this year but cannot afford anywhere. I only earn 550 a month from working part time since September as my youngest has started full time school. But it is still not enough to live on when trying to see what kind of housing I can afford. I only qualify for a one bedroom property from the council as I am classed as a single adult with no children. I will also need to budget for utilities which I’m not paying atm as my parents pay all bills and don’t charge me any rent as they know I can’t afford it. They are supportive and won’t sell the house until I’m able to move out but I feel bad as they aren’t wealthy and both still work full time and have a mortgage to pay. They help with costs for the kids too such as food school uniforms etc. But my problem is I can get no financial support at all and may be forced to give up custody of my kids to their dad.

Women’s aid advised me to go to court. They made me realise it was abuse and he was using the children. But unless abuse is physical it’s very hard to prove. And even if I proved it he could argue that he doesn’t abuse the children and so it shouldn’t affect his contact with them. There isn’t much they can do apart from support me emotionally when it gets too much. He also is very agressive and angry towards his mum although she would never admit it and does everything he asks.

Was that their advice, or was it their advice when you said you didnt want to go into a refuge?

This is very confusing OP. It seems you've been very badly let down by the domestic abuse organisation who are meant to be advising you.

As has already been suggested, please contact Rights of Women. They will be able to tell you your rights here and what you can do.

You can clarify benefits and what is meant to be paid to who via the Gingerbread helpline. They can't give you legal advice. They can advise if you are entitled to any other benefits in order to supplement your income.

The Pro Bono Bar Unit may be able to represent you if you are not eligible for legal aid. You need a referral to them and the process is on their website.

Your DV organisation should have been advising you to log all events and to report every incident to the police. In that way you are building evidence. Rights of Women can give you information on a Prohibited Steps Order in order to stop your ex taking your child.

You should also ask about Supervised Access in a Child Contact Centre given that he has snatched your child before, he isn't sticking to the court agreements and you have police evidence and evidence from the domestic abuse organisation.

I can only give you general advice as I don't know all the details but the organisations above should certainly help.

It's not true.

It's not all about physical, have you read the coercive control rulings?

You need to speak to your GP. Make it clear. Speak to your worker and take them with you if necessary to make sure your GP is aware, as its your gps responsibility to protect children too. The HV also.

You have seen him with the dc to know that he abuses them. He goes ballistic at you which is abusing them.

Your statements of his abuse are evidence.

I can’t go to a refuge as it would be too disruptive for the kids. We aren’t in physical danger so it would be pointless. He would accuse me of lying about all of it. He lied in court last time and tried to say I was unfit as I had depression etc. But the court was not interested in any problems between me and him. They were only concerned with the children and that we agreed on a schedule. At the time the main issue was that we had a court order which prevented him from taking them without permission or moving their schools etc. Women’s aid said that it’s very rare that emotional abuse is taken into account in child custody cases. I think the woman said she only knew of one case that went in favour of the mother. It’s even rare for physical abuse to be taken into account. (As long as it doesn’t involve the kids and he isn’t a danger to them).
Also the children don’t mind going to their dads/grandmothers. He does love them and they have toys etc there. He also has an older child who he has full custody of (I brought her up since she was 2 until she was 8 but don’t see her much anymore). But he does lose his temper with them and they are afraid of him. He also smacks them. (Still allowed here)

Where are you in the world?

Are you not in the UK?

The problem is the police cannot do anything. He is allowed to shout and smack them. He is allowed to snatch them from me and stop me seeing them.( it isn’t a police matter it is a “domestic” matter and the most they would do is a welfare check on the kids and advise us to go back to court). I could block his number but if there really was an emergency regarding the kids I wouldn’t know about it.

Yes in the U.K. north wales so a bit rural and not an array of services available but I’ve used women’s aid, and citizens advice. I used to be under the community mental health team and they have records of what I told them about my ex. But I’m not under them anymore as they were a bit useless. My son doesn’t have a health visitor anymore as he’s in reception but the previous health visitor knew what went on. The thing is he can pretty much do what he wants (short of punching me in the face) and technically he’s not breaking a single law.

When I did put in a rival claim for child benefit(as advised by cab) he phoned me about 5 times screaming down the fone and swearing as he was driving. I found out later that the kids were in the car with him as my daughter asked me a few days later “why was dad shouting at you on the phone?” So I know if I do anything to provoke him the kids will over hear him ranting and raving about me.

OP you need proper legal advice, not take the word of someone in the DV organisation.

You need Supervised access in a contact centre if he is shouting at them, talking on the phone with them in the car and hitting them. Gingerbread can advise you on all that.

Regarding your mental health issues. I'm sorry to hear that your local MH team have not been supportive. Perhaps give Rethink a call, they give specialised mental health advice and support: Call 0300 5000 927 9:30am to 4pm Monday to Friday

He CAN'T do what he wants! Have you not heard of coercive behaviour?
www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/controlling-or-coercive-behaviour-intimate-or-family-relationship

Get a letter from that Health Visitor who knew what was going on. See your GP...show them the letter. That's your proof.

rightsofwomen.org.uk/get-advice/
Call this organisation.

weareadvocate.org.uk/contact_us.html
Call this organisation too (pro bono - free - legal representation).

You have your call log.
You can apply for a prohibited steps order (PSO).

It is incredibly difficult to prove even physical abuse, and the courts will sometimes distinguish (wrongly) between abuse of a mother and non-abuse of her children. Women kid ourselves that the courts will always uphold our rights, that the police are interested in seeing fair play and enforcing the law on coercive control. But the experience of many women like the OP says otherwise and coercive control is very hard to prove. If you can't afford a solicitor you are often at the mercy of your abuser, who has the right to lie through his teeth in court.

However, Rights of Women and a solicitor or barrister working pro bono may well be able to provide the help you need, @Tobl20.

You will need to log every single incident.
You need to log every single time you are forced to take the children because he has work, and you need to log the amount of time the children were therefore left in your care.

You sound really terrified of this horrible man.
Are you under the care of a GP for your anxiety?
If you are going to change things you will need to brace yourself for a reaction from your ex. Be ready to phone police and to follow through with pressing charges if he threatens you, threatens the children, or assaults you/the children, or destroys any property of yours.
Go back to WA for the support they offer as you proceed through the courts.

Keep on posting here for support too. Many women here have gone through experiences like yours with men like your ex, and we are here to help.

No I’m not seeing anyone about my mental health at the moment. I’m on antidepressants but am wary of getting any help from gp etc as I’m afraid if I do end up going to court it will be used against me by my ex. I’ve got call logs but he’s clever about not messaging anything nasty and prefers to call rather than text or WhatsApp. Obviously if women’s aid said you have enough evidence go to court we will support you it will all go your way then I would go for it, but the lady was truthful and explained that it isn’t that simple. Even dangerous criminals in prison can get contact with their kids and although things are improving the law doesn’t favour the victims. I’m scared I could make things worse by going to court. She explained that there would have to be a very good reason why the children should spend less time with him (for example abuse). Simply being agressive towards me or claiming all the child benefit (which he’s legally allowed to do) isn’t evidence of abuse. If push comes to shove it’s my word against his.

I will call and see if they can offer any help. Hopefully there might be someone who was in a similar situation who managed to sort something. Thank you for all the advice on here. I feel a bit better having got a few things off my chest and feel more confident that he is the one in the wrong.

im so sorry your going through this.it doesnt make anything better really but just take the tiny light that is your parents. many dont have people like that in their lives so im so glad you have this little haven they have given you.
random reply because i know it doesnt solve your problems.but when your feeling like your in the worst and most earful place.try and keep hold of anything even the tiny things.and that could be right now how lovely a family you have around you.im so glaf you have that.
dont give up.it sound so tough for you and im sorry for that but dont give up.

OP you can divert his number to 'voice mail' only so you don't have to talk to him and any abuse will be recorded. If he's not abusing you via text then that will hopefully stop the abusive messages.

No one is suggesting you stop contact. I am suggesting that you make enquiries from the organisations above on supervised contact. Take a look at it here: www.naccc.org.uk/help-for-adults/types-of-contact/supervised-contact and like I said, Gingerbread will give you more information on that: www.gingerbread.org.uk/

There is an app you can download onto your phone where you can log evidence and gives you other information that you might find helpful: www.hestia.org/brightsky

Sorry I haven't RTFT but just wanted to recommend you contact Rights of Women for urgent legal advice.

Also Womens Aid (I have linked you to your local service - easier to get through) will support you all the way.

This is continued domestic abuse. I also experienced continued domestic abuse when I left my abusive husband - there are ways around this.

I'm so sorry you're having such an awful time

Ah I see math has already linked. Do contact them asap op

Have you heard of a non-molestation order?

The police kept saying they couldn't do anything about my dad's mental abuse and harassment, but then I got one of these orders. They are like restraining orders and can also include orders about who get to live in the family home or consequences for involving others in harassing you or damaging your things (arrest and imprisonment). -- It means the police can and should arrest for breaches, including sending unwanted communications of any kind and via a third party, and so on...It elevates it from a civil matter to a police matter, and takes out some of the potentially biased judgement from individual officers.

My father's abuse was mainly psychological and I was told these orders can be difficult to get. I heard stories of terrible violence where the women didn't get one, but I obtained one fairly easily. My mother and I had a solicitor but I found out you can apply and represent yourself for around £50 (or you could back then). -- All the Judge did was look at the evidence I personally gathered, read our statements, then asked what we wanted and granted us everything we requested.

This was because I logged and collected every tiny shred of evidence, and wrote out a statement with a timeline, dates, names of any witnesses...could include your boss, who will know how much flexibility you need, make a case for how this is financial abuse, (restricting your ability to work through causing childcare issues, staying in the house, benefits refusal)... You've got more material here than you think, but it needs putting together. On it's own each thing might not seem much but it's part of a bigger pattern.

I kept a diary and logged everything, absolutely every tiny thing. It doesn't matter for this if the police don't act, it can count in your favour to call, get a reference number and not be supported as the judge wants evidence you are not being adequately protected. Call logs showing all the people he had calling me from my phone, times I went to my GP due to the stress of it all, details of the emotional impact on me... and I kept all his communications. Many seemed nice or innocuous alone, but the volume was taken into account and that I asked him to only contact me through a solicitor, and that some messages were clearly manipulative or cruel. I'd certainly have all this stuff about the benefits, not being able to get housing due to his actions and being forced out of the family home in there, anything from your mental health team regarding abusing you plus impact on your health, the letter from Women's Aid and all the times he makes you take the kids. If you called the police when he tried to snatch the kids, that sort of thing too, but better if you have a reference number and a call log with it.

If granted, you may be able to use such an order as evidence for your custody arrangements, as well as to get him out of the house and you and the kids into it. We were offered the family home as a place to stay and which he'd be banned from.

I was the child in this instance, though an adult one, and I wonder if you could get one on behalf of one of the children say...that'd put a cat among the pigeons, wouldn't it? Suddenly perhaps with something like this you'd have your proof he mistreats them? -- def need very good legal advice on that, though I think. I am only speculating on that.

The order can be contested and you might need to be in court with him, but we had been so careful and detailed my father decided not to bother contesting (we went for an emergency order). But I bet he'd kick right off too, that's more evidence. He'll do something each time you try to stand up to him...it won't be nice, but give him enough rope as they say...

No advice OP, just wanted to say how sorry I am to read how awfully you have been let down

Op you have evidence of financial abuse.

You have 50 50 and he claims all the benefits for both children and stops you from doing so and makes you pay for all the school dinners (something you wouldn’t have to pay for if you were able to claim).

He remains in the family house and you have been unable to set up your own home for the children as he refuses to sell it.

These are 2 examples of financial abuse that are still ongoing that you can easily prove.

Hi OP, whilst I'm no legal expert I have been through the divorce process and had to deal with sorting out ownership of the house. One of the eventualites my solicitor discussed with me was what we would do if my ex wished to stay in the house and how I would then be able to afford a place of my own. To cut a long story short, I could ask for a sum to get a mortgage as part of the financial settlement.

You don't say if you bought the house between you or not. I'm guessing you weren't married so usual divorce advice may not apply, however if you are the co-owner I would definitely recommend contacting a solicitor and seeing if they give a free 30mins advice (many do) as it may not be as cut and dried as you think.

Legal aid for domestic abuse
And non-mols are free now in domestic abuse
Your WA have been remiss that you have not been advised of all this and that you have been dissuaded from pursuing non-mols and prohibited steps and occupation orders.

You have lots of evidence, whether you believe it or not, loads.

Record all.calls.from him, or dont take them and text him to text you as you can't talk or something.

You shouldn't ever have to speak to him again, so dont, all by written which is then further evidence.

Write down all you have told us, with dates and all the incidents you can recall. Don't call him names or anything just simply state exactoy.words used and levels of aggression, threats and so on.

Your gp can provide evidence of your anxiety as a result of abuse, but your gp is only allowed to give anyone what you agree to them having.

I’m no expert but if I were you I’d contact

https://www.ncdv.org.uk

They are supposed to be very good on domestic abuse and legal issues.

You could also try women’s aid.

I believe where there’s abuse you are eligible for legal aid (which your previous lawyer really should have told you, so maybe don’t use them again)

I’d also highly recommend you contact your local councils welfare rights office, they’re usually part of the social services dept and are very well informed on benefits side of things.

Your ex is not acting fairly. Yes the law (and govt) have been slow to catch up to the 50/50 thing BUT this does NOT sound like a true 50/50 arrangement (it rarely is in my experience)

Who is paying out most for the dc? Impacted most financially?

I suspect it’s you and he’s only just managing to tick the box on “no of nights spent at his”.

Which is not on.

I know it’s hard but you’re not with him now you need to find a way, with support, of stopping him controlling you and the dc.

Make some calls tomorrow.

I hope you get this sorted out soon.

“but I need some sort of proof of domestic abuse to be able to get legal aid.” His harassment is proof, your support from WA is proof I’m sure a letter from them would help - why are you not letting them help you?

“I would rarely suggest this but I think you need to try and get into a refuge.” I’m afraid I agree, you’re still far too under his control and I dread to think what he’s doing with dc

You HAVE proof you need to show it to the authorities though

“apart from my call logs” that’s still proof.

Record his calls. Better still have someone witness whenever possible by putting him on speakerphone. Your boss could be a witness, and the school for all the times you had to collect dc when it was meant to be his day. Schools keep call logs.

I don’t think from what you say the dc are doing that well at all, I think they’re coping as they have to but they’re internalising it all and further down the line it’ll all come out. That could be as mental illness, acting out, addiction...

I’d want them the hell away from him!

Has anyone spoken to the dc about who they want to live with? How old are they?

Honestly if I were you? I’d do a runner with the dc, I’ll get flamed but I really would.

I was raised in an abusive home and I know it’s not the “done” thing to say but honestly with how much abusers get away with I absolutely would.

You can easily prove the financial abuse with bank statements, receipts etc.

Fsm being linked to tax credits - I wonder if there’s something you can do there because he’s not claiming them but making you pay for them - beyond the financial abuse I mean.

For your and the kids sake you need to do all you can to sort this.

The long term effects on all of you doesn’t bear thinking about if you don’t.

Get therapy, get help to find the strength you need - that will not go against you in court. (My ex tried that shite - judge basically laughed at him! Then he tried to persist and judge basically told him to wind it in, that half the country were on antidepressants and the other half probably should be! and that therapy should be compulsory too)

Wishing you all the strength and hope and support in the world to resolve this.

I’m so sorry to read your post OP. I have no experience in this area on which to offer any real help but it may be one of those cases where things have to get worse in order to get better.

At the moment your ex isn’t suffering the consequences of his actions, you are picking up the slack every time in order to minimise the effect on your children. I totally understand why but it gives him the room to get away with what he is doing. For example the school lunches - how did it come about that you pay for them? Most schools allow you to pay for school dinners some of the time so if you just paid for the days you are court ordered to be responsible for the kids what would happen on the other days? Would he send them with a packed lunch or just let them turn up at school with nothing? What would the school do in those circumstances? Surely for one day they will just feed the kids but if it happens repeatedly then at some point they are going to get SS involved on the grounds of neglect. Same goes for him not collecting the kids, what would the school do if this happened repeatedly and they didn’t have you to call, they would call SS re abandonment.

As a first step I think you need to go to the school, explain your situation and what you are going to do about it, give them the exact court order details and say they cannot under any circumstances call you for anything unless one of the DC’s is taken to hospital when it’s time your ex has responsibility for the kids. Be really firm and explain why you are taking this route. Once school involve SS they will have to look more closely at what is going on and support changes to arrangements.

Explain to the children that you love them more than life itself but explain that things cannot go on as they have been and in order for things to get better they may have to get worse.

Stop covering for him, it’s enabling his behaviour. As others have said document absolutely everything. If you have an iPod or a smart phone it will have a memo recorder on it which can run for a very long time. Not sure of the legalities of recording things which go on but it will pick up a conversation even if in a bag or pocket. I can only imagine how broken you feel and how huge a mountain this all is to climb but you are a mother and will find the strength - it’s what we do.